---

Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: The amendments replicate amendments that we considered in Committee. I said at that time that I would consider further the level of the penalty. I recall that the hon. Member for Dumbarton (Mr. McFall) said that it would be absurd if someone were fined £2,500 for not giving his name and address. I agree in this context, and I believe that we should not go down the road of increasing penalties merely for the sake of presentation. Penalties should be proportionate to the gravity of the offence.

Having reconsidered the matter, we are still of the view that anything above a level 2 or £500 maximum fine for the offence would be disproportionate.

Mr. Gallie: Has my right hon. and learned Friend any guidance on why Opposition Members are taking this line? I hear repeatedly of their dismay that people are sent to prison for not paying fines. A fine of £2,500 would be well beyond the means of the majority of people who would be affected by the clause, and it would be nonsense unless they were sent to prison for non-payment.

Lord James Douglas-Hamilton: It would not be appropriate to get into the business of sentence-gazumping proposals. For a variety of reasons, we think that the amendments are unnecessary.

Amendment negatived.

Clause 57

Interpretation

Amendment made: No. 98, in page 59, leave out line 1.--[Lord James Douglas-Hamilton.]

Clause 58

Short title, commencement and extent

Amendment made: No. 104, in page 59, line 25, leave out from '(5)' to end of line 26 and insert
'of this Act shall extend to England and Wales, and section 33(4) of this Act shall extend to England and Wales and Northern Ireland.'.--[Lord James Douglas-Hamilton.]

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New schedule 2

Transitional provisions with respect to early release

1.--(1) In this Schedule--
"existing provisions" means the provisions relating to the detention or release of persons which are in force immediately prior to the date upon which Chapter 1 of Part III of this Act (hereinafter referred to as "the Chapter") comes into force, and where those provisions are amended or repealed by this Act or any other enactment, that amendment or repeal shall apply for the purposes of those provisions and this Schedule only if expressly stated to do so;
"new provisions" means the Chapter;
"new offence" means an offence (including default in paying a fine and contempt of court) committed after the new provisions come into force;
"old offence" means an offence (including default in paying a fine and contempt of court) committed before the new provisions come into force;
"new sentence" means a sentence passed in respect of a new offence;
"old sentence" means a sentence passed in respect of an old offence; and
"sentence" includes a period of imprisonment imposed for default in paying a fine or for contempt of court.
(2) In subparagraph (1) above, the definitions of new offence, new sentence, old offence and old sentence shall have effect notwithstanding that conviction and sentence may occur after the Chapter comes into force.
(3) In relation to default in paying a fine, the date on which sentence is passed shall be taken to be, in relation to imprisonment imposed--
(a) under section 214(2) or 216 of the 1995 Act, the date on which the court imposes imprisonment; and
(b) under section 214(4) of the 1995 Act, the date on which the defaulter is committed to prison.
2. Where, by virtue of the provisions of this Schedule, a prisoner is treated as serving--
(a) a new sentence, the new provisions will apply in respect of him;
(b) an old sentence, the existing provisions will apply in respect of him,
in both cases subject to any specific provision made in this Schedule.
3. For the purposes of this Schedule, where additional days have been awarded to, or days of remission have been forfeited by, a prisoner serving an old sentence, the period which he is required to serve in respect of that sentence shall be computed without regard to those days, and he shall serve those days--
(a) after that period has come to an end; and
(b) before starting to serve any new sentence of imprisonment which is to run consecutively to that old sentence.
4. Where any combination of old and new sentences is to run, either consecutively or concurrently, in relation to a prisoner, any supervised release order imposed under any of those sentences shall begin on the date when he is released; and where there is more than one such order he shall be subject to whichever of them is the longer or, as the case may be, the longest.
5. Where a single sentence is passed in respect of a number of offences committed on different days, for the purposes of this Schedule the sentence shall be deemed to have been passed in respect of the offence or offences committed on the latest of those days.

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6. Subject to paragraph 8 below, where a new sentence is to run consecutively to an old sentence, the new sentence shall begin--
(a) where the old sentence was or is for less than four years, at the expiry of one half of that sentence; and
(b) subject to paragraph 7 below, where the old sentence was or is for four years or more, at the expiry of two thirds of that sentence
7. Where, in a case to which paragraph 6(b) above applies, the Parole Board have, prior to the passing of the new sentence, recommended that the prisoner be released on licence on a date--
(a) earlier than the expiry of two thirds of that sentence; and
(b) later than the date on which the new sentence is passed,
the new sentence shall begin on such date as the Secretary of State may, after considering any further recommendation of the Parole Board, determine, being a date not later than the expiry of two thirds of the sentence.
8. Where a new sentence is to run consecutively to an old sentence and the prisoner concerned is in prison--
(a) because he has been recalled to prison by the Secretary of State, the new sentence shall begin, where he is recalled--
(i) after the expiry of one half and before the expiry of two thirds of the old sentence, at the expiry of two thirds of that sentence;
(ii) after the expiry of two thirds of the old sentence, at the expiry of the old sentence;
(iii) in either of the cases mentioned in sub-paragraphs (i) and (ii) above, and the Parole Board has directed his release under section 17(4) of the 1993 Act or has recommended his release under section 28(5) of the 1989 Act, on the date on which he would, by virtue of that direction or recommendation and but for the new sentence, have been released;
(b) as a result of an order made under section 16 of the 1993 Act (commission of offence by released prisoner), the new sentence shall begin on the date on which the return period determined by that order expires;
(c) both because he has been recalled by the Secretary of State and returned as a result of an order made under section 16 of the 1993 Act, the new sentence shall begin on the expiry of whichever of the recall period and the order period ends later.
9. Where any combination of old and new sentences is to run consecutively in relation to a prisoner and--
(a) after the expiry of any supervised release order such as is mentioned in paragraph 4 above; or
(b) where he is not subject to any such supervised release order, on his release,
there remains outstanding part of any licence period in respect of an old sentence, he shall, in accordance with the existing provisions, be subject to that licence for that part of that period.
10. Where any combination of old and new sentences is to run consecutively in relation to a prisoner and--
(a) the last of those sentences is a new sentence, he shall, in addition to any supervised release order or licence period, be subject to the new provisions in relation to that new sentence; and
(b) the last of those sentences is an old sentence, he shall, in addition to any supervised release order or licence period, be subject to the existing provisions in relation to that old sentence.
11. In calculating a licence period for the purposes of paragraphs 9 and 10 above any period less than three months shall be disregarded.
12. Where a prisoner serving an old sentence of four years or more--
(a) has been released on licence; and
(b) receives a new sentence,

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before the expiry of that old sentence, he shall begin to serve the new sentence immediately on its being passed or on such other date as the court may specify.
13. Where an old sentence is to run consecutively to a new sentence, the prisoner concerned shall begin to serve the old sentence on the date when he would otherwise have been released from the new sentence.
14. Where any combination of old and new sentences is to run concurrently, in relation to a prisoner, he shall be treated as if he is serving whichever of them will, as at the date on which the latest of them is passed, give rise to the later or, as the case may be, latest release date and, for the purposes of this paragraph, "release date" means--
(a) in the case of an old sentence--
(i) one half of a sentence of less than four years; and
(ii) two thirds of a sentence of four years or more; and
(b) in the case of a new sentence, the whole term.
15. If, by virtue of paragraph 14 above, the prisoner is to be treated as serving an old sentence, and--
(a) that sentence is either quashed or reduced to a period shorter than the concurrent new sentence on appeal; or
(b) a new sentence to which he is subject is increased on appeal to a period longer than the concurrent old sentence,
the prisoner concerned shall, as at the date when he begins to be treated as serving the new sentence, be deemed to have been awarded as many early release days as possible in relation to the period during which he was treated as serving the old sentence, (under deduction of any additional days which may have been awarded to him, or days of remission which may have been forfeited by him, during that period).
16.--(1) This paragraph applies where a prisoner who is being held on remand in respect of both an old offence and a new offence is, in consequence of the same act or omission--
(a) awarded additional days in respect of any prospective old sentence which may be imposed upon him; and
(b) is made subject to an order by which he forfeits early release days, in respect of any prospective new sentence which may be imposed upon him.
(2) Where the prisoner receives--
(a) only an old sentence, he is liable to the additional days mentioned in subparagraph (1)(a) above;
(b) only a new sentence, he is liable only to forfeit the early release days mentioned in subparagraph (1)(b) above.
(3) Where the prisoner receives both an old and a new sentence which are to run--
(a) consecutively, he is liable to the additional days, if the longer or, as the case may be, longest sentence is an old sentence, or to the forfeiture of the early release days, if the longer or, as the case may be longest, sentence is a new sentence;
(b) concurrently, he is liable either to the additional days or, as the case may be, to the forfeiture of the early release days, depending on whether the sentence is, in accordance with paragraph 14 above, to be treated as an old or, as the case may be, a new sentence.'.--[Lord James Douglas-Hamilton.]
Brought up, read the First and Second time, and added to the Bill.

Schedule 1

Minor and consequential amendments

Amendments made: No. 79, in page 60, line 40, at end insert--
'( ) In section 60 (effect of hospital orders)--
(a) in subsection (1)(a)--
(i) after the word "officer" there shall be inserted the words ", an officer on the staff of the hospital specified in the order"; and

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(ii) for the words "28" there shall be substituted the word "7";
(b) in subsection (4), for the words "28" there shall be substituted the word "7".'.
No. 277, in page 61, line 1, leave out from beginning to 'notify' and insert
'they shall, if that unit was not so specified,'.
No. 126, in page 61, line 46, at end insert--
'( ) In section 77 (transfers to England and Wales), after subsection (5) there shall be inserted the following subsection--
"(5A) Where a patient removed under this section was immediately before his removal liable to be detained under this Act by virtue of a hospital direction made by a court in Scotland, he shall be treated as if any sentence of imprisonment passed at the time at which the hospital direction was made had been imposed by a court in England and Wales.".
( ) In section 80 (transfers to Northern Ireland), after subsection (6), there shall be inserted the following subsection--
"(6A) Where a patient removed under this section was immediately before his removal liable to be detained under this Act by virtue of a hospital direction made by a court in Scotland, he shall be treated as if any sentence of imprisonment passed at the time at which the hospital direction was made had been imposed by a court in Northern Ireland.".
No. 278, in page 62, line 33, after 'order' insert 'or a hospital direction'.
No. 279, in page 62, line 34, after '62(1A)' insert 'or 62A(1A)'.
No. 121, in page 66, leave out lines 26 and 27.
No. 236, in page 67, line 30, leave out 'the order' and insert 'an order or direction'.
No. 237, in page 67, line 50, leave out 'under' and insert 'by virtue of'.
No. 238, in page 68, leave out line 14 and insert--
'(a) in subsection (2)--
(i) the words from the beginning to "209(1) of the 1995 Act" shall cease to have effect; and
(ii) after the words "prison in Scotland" there shall be inserted the words "under Schedule 1 to the Crime (Sentences) Act 1997 in an unrestricted transfer within the meaning of that Schedule"; and'.
No. 99, in page 70, leave out line 13 and insert--
'(2) In section 44 (detention of children in summary proceedings)--
(a) in subsection (4), the words ", subject to subsection (6) below,";
(b) subsections (6) to (9); and
(c) in subsection (10), the words "or (8)",
shall cease to have effect.'.
No. 80, in page 70, line 17, at end insert--
'( ) in subsection (3), for the words "28" there shall be substituted the word "7";'.
No. 81, in page 70, line 19, after 'time";' insert--
'( ) in subsection (5), for the words "28" there shall be substituted the word "7";
( ) after subsection (5), there shall be inserted the following subsection--
"(5A) Subsections (1) and (4) of section 60 of the Mental Health (Scotland) Act 1984 shall apply to an interim hospital order as they apply to a hospital order.";'.
No. 82, in page 70, line 22, at end insert--
'( ) In section 58 (hospital orders)--
(a) in subsection (4), for the words "28" there shall be substituted the word "7"; and

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(b) in subsection (9), for the words "28" there shall be substituted the word "7".'.
No. 83, in page 70, line 28, at end insert--
'( ) In section 65 (prevention of delay), after subsection (3) there shall be inserted the following subsection--
"(3A) An application under subsection (3) shall not be made at any time when an appeal made with leave under section 74(1) of this Act has not been disposed of by the High Court.".
( ) In section 74(4) (disposal of appeals in connection with preliminary diets)--
(a) the word "and" after paragraph (a) shall cease to have effect; and
(b) after paragraph (b) there shall be inserted the following words "and;
(c) may on cause shown extend the period mentioned in section 65(1) of this Act.".
( ) In section 81(6) (list of jurors where trial does not take place)--
(a) the word ", signed" shall cease to have effect; and
(b) for the words "85(1) and (2)" there shall be substituted the words "85(2)".
( ) In section 83 (transfer of sheriff court solemn proceedings)--
(a) in subsection (1), for the words "transfer the case to a sheriff court" there shall be substituted the words "adjourn the trial and transfer it to a sitting of a sheriff court, appointed as mentioned in section 66(1) of this Act,";
(b) in subsection (2)--
(i) before the word "make" there shall be inserted the words "adjourn the trial and"; and
(ii) for the word "case" there shall be substituted the word "trial as mentioned in subsection (1) above"; and
(c) after subsection (2), there shall be inserted the following subsection--
"(3) Where a warrant to cite any person to attend a sitting of the sheriff court has been issued by the sheriff clerk under section 66(1) of this Act and the trial has been adjourned and transferred by an order under subsection (2) above, the warrant shall have effect as if the trial diet had originally been fixed for the court, and the date of the sitting of that court, to which the trial is so transferred.".'.
No. 84, in page 70, line 45, after 'citation)' insert
'--
(a) in subsection (3)--
(i) the words "signed by the prosecutor and" shall cease to have effect;
(ii) in paragraph (a), after the word "accused," there shall be inserted the words "signed by the prosecutor and"; and
(iii) in paragraph (b), after the word "sent" there shall be inserted the words "by or on behalf of the prosecutor"; and
(b)'.
No. 85, in page 70, line 48, leave out
'signed by the accused's solicitor and sent'
and insert
'sent by the accused's solicitor'.
No. 119, in page 71, line 32, at end insert--
'( ) In section 228(1) (probation orders), after the word "below" there shall be inserted the words "and without prejudice to section 245CC of this Act".

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( ) In section 232 (failure to comply with requirements of probation order), after subsection (3) there shall be inserted the following subsection--
"(3A) Where the court intends to sentence an offender under subsection (2)(b) above, and the offender is by virtue of section 245CC of this Act subject to a restriction of liberty order, it shall, before sentencing the offender under that paragraph, revoke the restriction of liberty order.".
No. 86, in page 71, line 37, at end insert--
'( ) In section 234A (non-harassment orders), subsection (5) shall cease to have effect.'.--[Lord James Douglas-Hamilton.]

Schedule 2

Transitional provisions with respect to early release

Amendment made: No. 103, in page 72, leave out from line 9 to end of line 27 on page 73.--[Lord James Douglas-Hamilton.]

Schedule 3

Repeals

Amendments made: No. 87, in page 74, line 3, column 3, at end insert--
'In section 2(2), the word "and".'.
No. 240, in page 74, line 14, column 3, leave out 'subsections (2) and (3)' and insert
'in subsection (2), the words from the beginning to "209(1) of the 1995 Act"'.
No. 100, in page 74, line 54, column 3 after "44," insert
'in subsection (4), the words ", subject to subsection (6) below,",'.
No. 101, in page 74, line 55, column 3 at end insert
'and in subsection (10), the words "or (8)".'.
No. 88, in page 75, line 5, column 3, at end insert--
'In section 74(4), the word "and" after paragraph (a).
In section 81(6), the word ", signed".
In section 85(1), the words from "but" to the end.'.
No. 89, in page 75, line 10, column 3, at end insert--
'Section 140(3).
In section 141(3), the words "signed by the prosecutor and".'.
No. 90, in page 75, line 17, column 3, at end insert--
'In section 234A, subsection (5).'.
--[Lord James Douglas-Hamilton.]
Order for Third Reading read.

Motion made, and Question proposed, That the Bill be now read the Third time.--[Lord James Douglas-Hamilton.]

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