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7.45 pm
Mr. Connarty : I did not make a speech earlier, but only an intervention, because I had been on the Committee and I knew that my hon. Friend the Member for Dumbarton (Mr. McFall) could handle any points well.
What is left to us to debate now is what would in Burns's time have been called a reggle o' banes--a raggle of bones--loosely strung together to appeal to certain prejudices in the dark side of human nature and to try to appease them by getting tough. My concern is that the Bill will create more problems in society than it solves.
I intend not to rehearse matters that have gone before, but to deal with new ones. First, I should like to thank the Minister for his kind remarks when he said that he had considered my plea against the electronic tagging of children. He did not accept the amendment to that effect, but said that he would consider the possibility that the pilot scheme would be only for adults. I hope that that proves to be the case should this science fiction nightmare ever be put into operation in Scotland.
The main thrust of the Bill is to increase sentences. People will spend more time in prison. The Government's well-argued point, made in 1993, that to serve half a sentence in prison and to carry the rest of it into the public domain as a suspended sentence, to prove that one could be a good citizen, has been cast aside.
The main result, as we know, will be increased overcrowding. The main unplanned consequence of that, which has been predicted by everyone who has considered the criminal justice system over the past 100 years, will be to increase tension in prisons and stress for prison staff. I predict that prison unrest and violence will increase.
The effects will not be confined to prisons, because the public are well aware--[Interruption.] I have a speech to make, and I intend to make it. I have sat here all day waiting to make this speech, and I intend to make it fully. I have considered my position today, and I want to express it on Third Reading, because it relates to important matters that concern the whole Bill rather than any particular part of it. If I need to detain hon. Members until 10 o'clock to make my point, I will. No one of any party can tell me to curtail my speeches merely to play some game.
I believe that the public will feel the impact of such unrest. That is why I speak against Third Reading. The public in my constituency feel the impact of every single shiver of unrest in the Polmont young offenders institution. When there is unrest in a prison, as there has been at Full Sutton, at Glenochil and other prisons, and when there are suicides in places such as Cornton Vale, as we discussed at some length on Report, there is an impact on everyone in society. People are worried that the society in which they live is breaking down and that one of the major institutions designed to keep the checks and balances--the Prison Service--is failing to perform its duty properly.
There will also be a long-term impact on the behaviour of ex-prisoners who have served five sixths of their sentence. They will not turn out better citizens: they will turn out better institutionalised criminals, and they will probably learn much greater criminal habits. As we have seen from reports on prisons, prisoners are increasingly learning drug habits. That comes from the feeling in
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We know that five new prisons are planned by the Government at a cost of £102 million as a consequence of the Bill, using the private finance initiative. I am sure that society has a feeling of betrayal when that £102 million could be doing something useful in hospitals, the national health service, education or elsewhere in Scotland.
One of the early consequences of the Bill will be overcrowding. I have had a long discussion, at its instigation, with members of the Scottish Prison Officers Association. They have given me some interesting facts about the institution in my constituency as an example. I will use it as an example to suggest to the Minister that, as a consequence of his Bill, the problems there will be repeated throughout the prison system in Scotland.
The Minister will be aware that the situation at Cornton has been artificially produced by the Government's closure of Castle Huntly young offenders institution and moved the prisoners from there mainly to Polmont, with a proposed onward move to a wing of Cornton Vale prison. We have debated Cornton Vale at great length. The Minister said in reply to one of my points that it was on hold at the moment. There are now more than 500 prisoners in Polmont. I am told that that is 25 per cent. overcrowding. The Bill will have the same consequence for prisons throughout Scotland.
What are the consequences of 25 per cent. overcrowding for Polmont and other prisons? I am told that in, that young offenders institution, the slightly insecure wing, where trusted prisoners were kept, has had to be emptied and the D category prisoners all moved into secure wings. The reason for that was that the behaviour of other prisoners and the unrest in the rest of the prison impacted on the trusted prisoners, and a large cache of knives and ski masks was found in the insecure section. They had been brought in by trusted prisoners and by other means to feed the unrest in the main prison, where faction fighting is growing.
I am told that Saughton prison wants to get rid of its untried prisoners and dump them in Polmont young offenders institution, thereby exacerbating the problem. I hope that the Minister will give me an assurance that that will not happen. That is the problem that will be caused by the Bill. Prisoners will stack up and prisoners will end up in very overcrowded prisons. That must be considered.
I am also told that the Bill which is about to be passed will impact on an environment in which there are serious concerns about staffing. I have some examples of the results of that in Scottish prisons. In one wing, one supervisor and six members of staff have to look after 105 prisoners on leisure regime, when they are outside. That is frightening. I asked why. I am told that there are now serious problems of non-cover for staff absence.
I was given a table showing an analysis of staffing levels. The excess hours worked in 1994-95 were the equivalent of 16 extra members of staff. That was forced down to 12 in 1995-96 and is now down to only five and a half, because people are not covered. Rotas are not covered when people go off ill. That is what happens when there is an attempt to reduce the staffing level and
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There is also concern about the inability to prevent drugs and weapons coming into the prison system. That is due to a lack of investment at the interface between visitors and prisoners. The SPOA members told me that there were not enough sniffer dogs, metal detectors or other equipment to scrutinise the throughput of the vast numbers of visitors to an overcrowded prison. I am sure that that will be reflected in prisons throughout Scotland, as well as Polmont, and even more so as a consequence of the Bill.
What is the result of overcrowding? We have the problem of a growing challenge to the regime of the prisons. The examples given to me from Polmont were frightening. I said earlier that ski masks and weapons had been smuggled in by supposedly trusted prisoners. Internecine warfare is running throughout the halls in the prison. We had a major riot about a year and a half ago in Polmont. We had a mini riot in November 1996. It was about prisoners trying to become a regime within a regime. I am told that people from one city or section of the Scottish population try to rule all those from other counties. The prison officers said that they were worried that they could not control any major outbreak of prison violence.
There have been five assaults on officers in Polmont in 1996-97. An officer has been hit over the head with a chair. One has been attacked in a cell. One has had serious damage to his groin after being kicked. Another has had broken ribs in four separate incidents.
A prisoner was up in court on an assault charge today, and will probably have been disposed of. He is a fairly well known character in prison legend. When he was sentenced, he jumped over the barrier in the sheriff court and pulled the sheriff's wig off. The Minister may recall him. The prisoner is up for assaulting a member of staff. The custodial regime is beginning to break down because of overcrowding. That will be the consequence throughout Scotland of the Bill, and it seriously worries me.
I am told that, on escort duty, staff can have up to six prisoners, with only one driver and one member of staff to supervise them. There was a recent assault on a woman officer. The prisoner assaulted the officer in the back of the van, then jumped through and attacked the driver. The driver was forced to draw to the side of the road. Luckily, an off-duty policeman and some others came to the rescue, or we could have had a very serious incident on our hands.
It is all down to trying to save money and force more people into prisons and to the philosophy that people who break the law should be slammed up without considering the logic of why we are doing it or making any attempt to change the behaviour of people when they are in prison. That is plainly the philosophy behind the Bill.
I am told by the SPOA that too many minor offenders are in prison. We discussed the detail of cases of people in Cornton who were in prison for fine default. Polmont is said to be 25 per cent. overcrowded. I am told that, if the fine defaulters were taken out, the prison population would be reduced by 25 per cent. immediately. That is something that we must consider. If the fine was the proper disposal at the beginning, people should not end
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