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Mr. Patrick Thompson (Norwich, North): I am listening to my hon. Friend's speech with great interest. He is introducing a very good measure. Will he refer to how other countries deal with the same problem? Does similar legislation already exist in France, Germany or the United States?
Mr. Waterson: I am sorry to disappoint my hon. Friend, but I shall not be dealing with those aspects in my speech--otherwise it would probably take up most of the morning. Perhaps my hon. Friend the Minister will touch on them. Other countries approach the problems in different ways or in similar ways to my Bill. However, it is absolutely clear that if terrorists co-operate internationally, Governments should do the same. As I have already said, it is an international problem. I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his support today.
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It is perhaps even more curious that in the case of R. v. Sanson in 1991, the Court of Appeal held that a conspiracy abroad to commit a crime here was triable here even though there was no overt act in this country. Can there therefore be any sensible reason why the reverse should not apply in English law?
Our law provides that it is also an offence to conspire to commit or incite others to commit an offence. Specific statutory provision for that is made in section 1 of the Criminal Law Act 1977. Under that provision, the courts have jurisdiction to prosecute a person for conspiracy or incitement only if the contemplated substantive offence, whether carried out or not, is itself an offence that could be prosecuted in the UK. Clearly, in circumstances where the substantive offence is or would have been completed in the UK, and therefore is prosecutable here, our courts have the jurisdiction to prosecute for any conspiracy or incitement to commit that offence.
There are also a few statutory exceptions to the general principle of territoriality, where UK courts have been given specific power to prosecute people for offences committed in other countries or otherwise outside UK territory. In other words, there are a number of offences in respect of which our courts can exercise extra-territorial jurisdiction. To give a few examples, we have such jurisdiction over offences of murder, piracy, treason and breaches of certain international conventions, such as the chemical weapons convention, and in respect of attacks on persons protected by international conventions.
As I said, if courts have jurisdiction over the substantive offence, it follows that they would also be able to prosecute for conspiracy or incitement to commit that offence. Therefore, in respect of offences over which the UK has adopted extra-territorial jurisdiction, our courts are already able to deal with conspiracies or incitement to commit those offences, even where the substantive offence is or would be completed abroad.
We have seen that there is only a limited range of offences in respect of which the UK will take extra-territorial jurisdiction, but for the vast majority of crimes under our law, if the completed act is to take place overseas, our courts are generally powerless to act against conspiracies or incitements that occur in this country. That is so, although conspiracy and incitement are in themselves offences. I believe that it is right for Parliament to debate measures that seek to prevent people such as foreign extremists and football hooligans from using this country to further criminal activities overseas. That is the aim of the Bill.
Clause 1 inserts a new section 1A in the Criminal Law Act 1977. That sets out the various conditions that would need to be satisfied for a charge of conspiracy to commit offences outside the UK in relation to England, Wales and Northern Ireland. Conspiracy is the act of two or more people agreeing together to pursue a course of action that amounts to a criminal offence. The clause would make it an offence in England, Wales or Northern Ireland to conspire to pursue a course of conduct that would amount to an offence where it was intended that the conduct
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Another important requirement that must be satisfied before the provision would apply is that the substantive act must constitute an offence both under the law of England and Wales or of Northern Ireland and under the law of the country in which it was committed or planned to be committed. That application of the principle of dual criminality is a vital safeguard. We in Parliament rightly consider that it is our function to pass laws that apply in the territory of the UK. We would take great exception if the law-making body of another country attempted to pass laws that would apply here. Equally, therefore, we must not attempt to export our laws overseas. The dual criminality test avoids that trap. It will ensure that, even if a person conspires in the UK to commit an act that is an offence in the country where it would be committed, unless that act is also an offence under the law of the relevant UK jurisdiction where the conspiracy takes place, no offence will have been committed under the Bill.
Similarly, the Bill will not penalise those in the UK who plan to carry out an act that is perfectly lawful in the place where it would be committed, even if to do so in this country would amount to an offence. The Bill provides that the criminality test is satisfied unless the defence shows grounds that it is not, in which case it is a matter for the judge to decide. The final condition is that some part of the conspiracy, but not necessarily all of the conduct that constitutes that offence, must take place in England, Wales or Northern Ireland.
Clause 2 makes it an offence in England, Wales or Northern Ireland to incite another person to commit an offence outside the territory of the UK. Incitement is the act of encouraging others to do something. Conditions are set out in clause 2 that must be satisfied before incitement would amount to an offence under the Bill. The conditions are similar to those that I described a moment ago in relation to conspiracy, including the requirement for dual criminality.
Clause 3 contains the Scottish provisions. They are framed slightly differently from those applying in the other UK jurisdictions because, of course, of the differences in Scots law. The Bill's effect is, however, essentially the same in all three jurisdictions.
The maximum penalty for the offences of conspiracy and incitement created by the Bill is the same as those for the substantive offence that is being planned or encouraged. Thus, conspiracy to rape, for example, would carry a maximum penalty of life imprisonment, as that is the maximum penalty available for the offence of rape under UK law.
As a consequence of introducing a measure that applies across the board to all criminal offences, it is hardly surprising that a number of legislative provisions will have to be amended or repealed to take account of my Bill. For example, where legislation might already refer to conspiracy or incitement to commit particular acts outside UK jurisdiction, such references will obviously be superseded by the Bill's general provisions. Clause 4 therefore makes provision for the necessary amendments and repeals by giving effect to the two schedules to the
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I hope that I have given a fair and accurate description of the Bill's aims, principles and contents. In a sense, it is designed to have a limited and narrow effect on UK law. I have been at pains since first considering the matter to ensure that there is strong protection in the Bill for the legitimate civil rights of foreign nationals who find themselves in our country because, for whatever reason, they are at odds with the regime in their native land. This country has always prided itself on its liberal approach to political refugees, whatever their views. Nor is my Bill aimed at any particular individual group or organisation.
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