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1.21 pm
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mr. Timothy Kirkhope): We have had an excellent debate on an important Bill. The speeches of my hon. Friends and other hon. Members have been models of eloquence. The Government are grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Eastbourne (Mr. Waterson) for introducing the Bill, which will provide the courts, in each of the jurisdictions of the United Kingdom, with jurisdiction over acts of conspiracy or incitement committed in this country which relate to any substantive criminal act intended to be carried out abroad. The Government fully support the Bill.
I can confirm to my hon. Friend the Member for Newark (Mr. Alexander) that we intend to ensure that the provisions in the Bill, if approved by the House, will come into effect at the same time. Clause 5 may cause technical problems, but the delays would be only a matter of days. We envisage that the time of commencement will be largely consistent.
The Government are deeply concerned that some people in this country are instrumental in the commission of offences abroad. Foreign Governments may justifiably be surprised that people who have conspired to commit, or incited others to commit, offences in their countries can escape prosecution simply because their actions took place in the United Kingdom where no sanction currently exists to deal with them. There is no reason to suggest that such behaviour is widespread, but when it does occur it is right that we should try to curb it.
My hon. Friend the Member for Gainsborough and Horncastle (Mr. Leigh) challenged me to give a reason for our support for the Bill. I say simply that the Bill rightly tries to prevent people from conspiring to commit criminal offences overseas knowing that they are immune from prosecution for that conspiracy. It is wrong that such a situation should be allowed to continue. I will tell the
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As my hon. Friend the Member for Eastbourne explained, United Kingdom law already provides that it is an offence to conspire, or to incite others, to commit any offence when the commission of that offence occurs, or would have occurred, in this country. If a group of people are involved in a conspiracy to commit a serious offence, or a person here incites another to commit an offence, the fact that the offence in question was to be carried out abroad rather than in the United Kingdom should not prevent our police and criminal courts from dealing with he perpetrators.
As the hon. Member for Cardiff, South and Penarth (Mr. Michael) said, the development of modern travel and communication has brought with it tremendous benefits--benefits that are enjoyed by everyone, including, unfortunately, the criminal element in society. In recent years, there has been a growth in cross-border crime and it is vital that our law keeps pace with the new and ingenious ways in which modern technology is utilised by the criminal.
When introducing legislation aimed at combating international crime, we should be careful to ensure that the UK does not simply export its laws to other countries. Foreign Governments are responsible for determining what actions should be prohibited within their territories and how such behaviour should be dealt with under their laws. It is important to strike the right balance between dealing effectively with cross-border crime and avoiding impinging on other countries' laws. The Government believe that the Bill achieves that aim. It will enhance the ability of our courts to deal with crimes with a foreign element, while taking account of the law in the countries where the intended offence is to be committed. I am referring to the inclusion in the Bill of the requirement for dual criminality, the importance of which my hon. Friend the Member for Eastbourne made clear.
The UK should deal with those who commit offences within our territory. That is the principle on which the jurisdiction of our courts is based. The interdepartmental review of extra-territorial jurisdiction, which reported last July and to which my hon. Friend the Member for Eastbourne referred, confirmed that that approach continues to be right for the United Kingdom. The proposals in the Bill are in no way inconsistent with that principle. After all, it attempts to deal with actions that take place in this country, even though the completed offence--if it is completed--would be committed outside our normal jurisdiction.
The implications of extending the scope to all offences were fully investigated by the review of extra-territorial jurisdiction, which considered whether it would be better to confine any extension of jurisdiction over conspiracy and incitement to those areas that have given rise to concern, as we have done with child sex offences. The review concluded, however, that the selective approach may not work in all instances, since it would be difficult to identify all the substantive offences that may need to be covered to deal with a problem. The review also concluded that extension to all offences was the simplest and most effective approach.
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It is worth saying a few words about the background that gave rise to the review of extra-territorial jurisdiction. Generally, criminal jurisdiction in the UK is territorially based. That means that conduct that would constitute an offence must have some connection with United Kingdom territory. Offences committed abroad by British nationals, unless they fall within a particular statutory provision, cannot normally be prosecuted in the UK.
The reasons for the primacy of the territorial principle are clear and twofold. In the first place, the criminal law of this country sets out what we as a nation believe about the sort of society in which we want to live. The law defines the conduct that is or is not acceptable: it defines the parameters and establishes the standard. We, and we alone, can say what actions should be proscribed by the criminal law. No one can do that for us and nor, in the generality of cases, should we attempt to do it for anyone else.
The second reason is equally strong. Under our system of justice, criminal trials depend to a major degree on the ability of the court to hear and assess evidence and to test out the truth of allegations by the cross-examination of witnesses. The best place for that to happen is clearly in the country where the crime occurred. The territorial basis of the criminal law has been, and in our view always should be, paramount.
Nevertheless, that principle has had to be modified in recent years. The report of the review of extra-territorial jurisdiction contains an important and fascinating account of the many and diverse ways in which, for very good reasons, the territoriality principle has been modified in recent times to co-operate further with other countries in the continuing battle with frontierless crime.
There are many such crimes, and as society and technology develop, the development of international crime keeps pace. I can mention, for example, terrorism, hijacking, financial fraud, drug trafficking, fraud and forgery, art theft--indeed, there is a very long list. It is the responsibility of the House, however, to legislate at least at a matching pace.
I want to respond to a point made by my hon. Friend the Member for South Suffolk (Mr. Yeo). He asked how widely such provisions were used by other nations. There are some examples, but I cannot give a complete list. I hope, however, that the example that we are setting here will be considered seriously by those countries that are not proceeding in the same way. It is a good example, and the hard work of my hon. Friend the Member for Eastbourne will produce something of which we can be proud.
In Europe, many countries already take extensive extra-territorial jurisdiction. That gives them some measure of control over the activities abroad of their countrymen but, unlike the United Kingdom, many are not prepared to extradite their own citizens. The reason is frequently found to be in their constitutions.
In contrast, we are prepared to extradite our citizens, subject of course to the normal safeguards. We have extradition arrangements with more than 100 countries. Even so, we have found that the absence of jurisdiction over the commission abroad of serious offences by British citizens can and does give rise to difficulties in circumstances in which we have not been able to extradite the individual.
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As a result of those differences and of the difficulties that have arisen from time to time, there has been pressure to take wider jurisdiction, usually in areas where there is public and political concern. Specific instances may come to the mind of hon. Members, and those may well encompass certain crimes on board aircraft; the behaviour of football fans--let me correct that: they are not fans but hooligans--abroad; the activities of foreign extremists based in the UK who are seeking the overthrow of individuals or Governments abroad; and the vile activities of British tourists who sexually exploit young children abroad.
Other countries have taken appropriate steps. The United States has recently passed legislation on terrorism that is similar to that proposed in the Bill. I remind the House that terrorism is not in itself a crime; its components are. Causing explosions, murder and other activities associated with terrorism are the crimes; but I think that we all know what we mean when we talk about terrorism.
The counter-terrorism law signed by President Clinton on 24 April 1996 criminalises conspiracies to kill, murder or maim persons outside the United States so long as at least one of the conspirators involved in a terrorist conspiracy overseas commits an act in furtherance of that conspiracy in the United States. The statute includes attacks on property overseas, including buildings owned by a Government with whom the United States is at peace or any building used for religious, education or cultural purposes, and any railroad, canal, bridge, airfield or other public conveyance or structure.
We have also taken action in respect of some of the examples that I have given. The Government supported an amendment to the Civil Aviation Act 1982 to extend the jurisdiction of the UK courts over offences committed on board foreign-registered aircraft that were outside UK airspace but were arriving in this country. It was a nonsense that the police at Heathrow could arrest an offender on a British Airways flight, but not on an American Airlines flight. I am pleased to say that that is now being put right.
The Government also gave their support to the Sexual Offences (Conspiracy and Incitement) Bill, to which several hon. Members have referred, introduced last Session by my hon. Friend the Member for Hendon, South (Mr. Marshall) to deal with conspiracy and incitement to commit sexual offences against children abroad. That was an important step in the fight against child sex tourism and I am pleased that it found its way on to the statute book. It was a major step forward. It certainly meant that if any British travel agent was tempted to get involved in that disgusting trade, and discussed it with any potential customer here, he would be committing an offence.
The Bill that we are discussing today does not have extra-territorial effect. If the conspiracy as well as the intended offence take place abroad, the conspirators do not fall foul of the provisions of the Bill. Having said that, I reiterate the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Eastbourne that not all aspects of conspiracy or incitement need to occur in the United Kingdom for the Bill to apply. Provided that a sufficient element takes place here, the provisions can bite.
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The Government recognise that there are areas in which the absence of jurisdiction over conspiracy and incitement has caused difficulties, including the activities of foreign extremists in the United Kingdom who plan or encourage criminal acts in their own country, and football hooligans who plan violence at venues abroad. Such activities have a negative and unhelpful impact on bilateral relations with many of the countries involved. There is also a more general concern that we should not allow the United Kingdom to be regarded as a safe place in which criminals can plan their future activities.
The example of the problem of football hooliganism is important. Problems mainly arise when England plays abroad in both so-called friendly matches and competitive World cup and European championship matches. The main hooligan leaders from clubs around the United Kingdom have a form of communication network. They are in regular contact with each other and, on occasions, contact their hooligan counterparts abroad to arrange confrontations. Most of the planning is done among themselves and with their counterparts sometimes weeks before the match takes place. Until now, that in itself has not constituted an offence; under the Bill it will become an offence. If the police can obtain evidence, the ringleaders could be charged before they even set out for the match.
If hooligans get to a match and cause trouble, the preferred course of action is that any English hooligan who is arrested is properly dealt with under that country's judicial system. Unfortunately, although understandably, that is not how other countries always want to deal with matters. Time after time, English supporters arrested abroad have simply been detained and deported. The hooligan leaders know that, and often get away--I was going to say scot free--without being dealt with in a proper manner. If the crimes had occurred in the United Kingdom, they would undoubtedly have resulted in a court appearance.
Similarly, when domestic clubs play abroad in European competitions, planned confrontations take place. The difference is that the hooligans are local to that particular club and not from around the United Kingdom as with a national team match. That makes it easier to plan disorder, as the hooligans often socialise together away from the football scene.
I remind the House of the notable examples from the not-too-distant past. The Republic of Ireland versus England match in 1995 immediately springs to mind. In a match two years before that, between England and Holland in 1993, intelligence was received that English hooligans had travelled with the intention of attacking Dutch supporters. In the two days leading up to the game, Dutch nationals were subjected to attacks in Amsterdam, where many English hooligans had based themselves. They set fire to the stadium at the close of the game. Much of the disorder was planned in the United Kingdom in the weeks before the match and contact was made with the hooligans' Dutch counterparts. I pay tribute to the work of the National Criminal Intelligence Service football unit, which was formed in 1989 with a brief to collate, analyse and disseminate intelligence on serious and persistent football hooligans travelling throughout the United Kingdom and abroad.
When our teams play abroad, it is normal practice for United Kingdom police officers to attend and assist the host force in identifying known troublemakers. They are
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If we were to take no action, what sort of message would that send, not only to our friends abroad, but to the public at home and, indeed, the criminals who were conspiring to commit crimes abroad or inciting others to do so on their behalf? We would be saying that we accept that we, the United Kingdom, cannot prevent people from using our country as a headquarters--indeed as a safe haven--from which they can with impunity make their plans and organise the carrying out of criminal acts anywhere in the world, unless we have already taken jurisdiction over the specific substantive offence. That would be a weak-kneed, passive and entirely negative position--the position of an ineffective and a morally corrupt country and neither of those terms can be allowed to apply to the United Kingdom. We must not give such ammunition to others to use against us.
An alternative to the approach taken in the Bill would be to extend the scope of the law on conspiracy and incitement only in those areas which had given rise to concern, as we have done with child sex offences. I know that several of my hon. Friends raised that question. That was one of the options considered by the interdepartmental review, but it concluded that the selective approach may not work in all instances. It would be difficult to identify all the offences that may need to be covered, and it is more difficult, for example, to determine what offences might need to be specified to deal with football hooligans. The Football Spectators Act 1989 enables magistrates in England and Wales to make orders against those convicted of football hooliganism offences in Norway, the Republic of Ireland, Scotland, Sweden and Italy, but bilateral agreements are necessary to achieve that. In addition, the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 introduced legislation referring to football grounds, which is important in dealing with hooliganism.
However, if it were proposed to extend the law only in relation to any activities that have at any time in the past given particular cause for concern, such an extension would be so wide as to leave it difficult to justify not taking jurisdiction over conspiracy and incitement to commit any offence abroad. That might be an acceptable option if we were to take jurisdiction generally over criminal acts committed abroad, because then people could be prosecuted for the substantive act and/or the conspiracy and incitement offences, because jurisdiction for that automatically follows. However, that would be a significant move away from the territorial basis of our common law heritage. Having carefully considered the implications of each of the options available, the review reached the conclusion that the simplest and most effective approach would be to extend the scope of incitement and conspiracy generally.
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