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12.59 pm

Mr. Kirkhope: This has been an excellent and important debate. I again congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Eastbourne (Mr. Waterson) on promoting the Bill, and on the excellent way in which he has guided it. He has listened to the concerns of hon. Members, and has taken those into account as the Bill has progressed.

There is no doubt about the threat of international terrorist activity in the United Kingdom. Hon. Members need think back only a few weeks to the letter bombs delivered to the offices of an Arabic newspaper in London, which seriously injured one person, or back a little further, to December, to the conviction of two individuals for car bombing the Israeli embassy and a Jewish charity building, in London, in July 1994. In the same year, two members of a Kurdish terrorist organisation, the PKK, were sentenced to lengthy terms of imprisonment for arson attacks directed against Turkish premises. International terrorists, by definition, commit crimes abroad to cause political change, and hon. Members have spoken in some detail about those issues.

The threat of international terrorist activity to the United Kingdom is closely linked to the threat of such activity being conducted from the UK. Hon. Members have asked on which terrorists or terrorist groups the Bill might impinge. On Second Reading, hon. Members mentioned various press reports or allegations about the activities in the UK of supporters of international terrorist groups, such as Hamas. Often those allegations are unfounded, either because they relate to activities that are not offences under UK law, such as political propaganda or charitable fund raising, or because they are not substantiated by evidence. Some of the activities mentioned in this debate would not necessarily fall foul of UK law, because laws in this country allow freedom of expression and freedom of political organisation against regimes or Governments that are not to the liking of those involved.

Investigations have not shown any evidence that Hamas supporters in this country are actively involved in organising or funding terrorism abroad, but we do take any allegations of terrorist activity here very seriously. The police and the security services devote high priority to countering any activity here in support of international terrorism. When there is evidence, we can and we do take action under our current law--for example, by excluding or deporting people from the United Kingdom. However, the Bill would very much strengthen our ability to do so, and underline our determination not to tolerate support here for terrorism abroad.

Security and legal considerations preclude me from going into detail about current investigations, but I can say that, for example, two Algerian nationals are currently in custody in the UK, subject to applications by the French authorities to extradite them in connection with the 1995 bombing campaign in France. One of the individuals is alleged to have been involved in those offences from the UK. The Bill will also prove useful in the fight against those involved in organised international crime.

Mr. Galloway: All the examples the Minister has cited have been or are being dealt with under existing British law. The maniacs who tried to blow up the Israeli embassy and the Jewish charitable building were dealt

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with under due process of British law. The Minister has just told us that two Algerians are facing extradition to France--God's speed to that extradition--where they are alleged to be guilty of serious terrorism. They are all being dealt with under existing law. We are now inventing a new law; surely the Minister should be making a case for that.

Mr. Kirkhope: I have tried to explain that the Bill will strengthen our powers. We do indeed already have some powers, but the new ones will be extremely useful in our fight against international crime being organised from this country.

Criminals are involved in a wide range of offences, including passport fraud, drug trafficking and illegal immigration. A joint development between the National Criminal Intelligence Service and the law authorities in the Netherlands, for example, resulted in the arrest of 14 individuals in the UK and the Netherlands for drug trafficking. Economic crimes, such as corporate market manipulation, have been the subject of attention by NCIS working with the appropriate financial regulation authorities.

Successes have also been scored against paedophiles. As hon. Members are well aware, legislation currently before the House is helping to strengthen our approach against this vile and despicable crime.

Through NCIS, we have targeted individuals who were suspected of producing counterfeit dollars in the UK for use in the United States. That operation was the work of a number of agencies, and investigations have also uncovered forged documents linked to a European operation controlled by an organised crime group. There are many examples of the types of crime which the Bill will assist us to detect and take action against.

I know that concerns have been expressed in various ways, but I hope that the assurance that I gave a little earlier will help to allay them. We are not against asylum, as the hon. Member for Swansea, East (Mr. Anderson) almost suggested. We want to grant asylum; the Bill does nothing to take away from people who fear for their lives the right to come here and be safe as long as they are prepared to accept this country's laws. That notion is paramount and it is what lies behind this important Bill. I commend it to the House.

1.6 pm

Mr. Waterson: We have had an interesting debate of very high quality. I am grateful for the element of cross-party support for the Bill and must thank especially the hon. Member for Cardiff, South and Penarth(Mr. Michael) for his efforts during its various stages. I also thank my colleagues who have given up their time on a Friday to be here rather than in their constituencies.

The hon. Member for Glasgow, Hillhead(Mr. Galloway) made plain his root-and-branch opposition to the Bill, but he also made some thought-provoking points, for which I thank him. The hon. Member for Rotherham (Mr. MacShane) made a characteristic contribution.

I am delighted to welcome the hon. Member for Inverness, Nairn and Lochaber (Sir R. Johnston) to our debate. This is the first time that we have had the benefit of the views of the Liberal Democrats on this matter. I do not accept his criticism that the Bill is ill considered or

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rushed--we have had full debates in Committee and on Second Reading, as well as today. I ask him to consider the safeguards included in the Bill.

I am delighted to welcome the hon. Member for Swansea, East (Mr. Anderson) to our deliberations again. He knows that I do not agree with his comments about the safeguards, but I am grateful for his continuing interest in the Bill. I thank my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Burton (Sir I. Lawrence) and my hon. Friend the Member for Gainsborough and Horncastle (Mr. Leigh) for their support and for their detailed scrutiny of the Bill.

There is a clear, and perhaps surprising, loophole in our laws which the Bill is designed to close. Because our approach to territoriality of jurisdiction is based, as has been mentioned, on the Queen's peace, it enables people to conspire and incite criminal acts while in this country. All we are doing is applying the principle, which the House approved in the Sexual Offences (Conspiracy and Incitement) Act 1996, across the range of criminal law--the principle of extra-territoriality of jurisdiction, whether it relates to paedophilia, terrorism, fraud, drug trafficking, football hooliganism or a range of other possible offences.

The Bill has safeguards to protect our long tradition of providing safe haven for refugees and the like. As the hon. Member for Hillhead pointed out, Karl Marx is perhaps the best example of that. He sat peacefully and without interruption in the reading room of the British museum. The Bill will have no effect on peaceful dissent and political opposition. It contains the fundamental safeguard of dual criminality and the normal safeguard of the prosecution having to prove its case beyond reasonable doubt.

Mr. Donald Anderson: The hon. Gentleman is speaking as though he is not in favour of the concession made by the Home Office. Does he agree that another argument for involving the Attorney-General is the possibility that a tyrannical regime overseas could urge, finance and give evidence to a private individual in this country sympathetic to that tyrannical regime to bring an action against someone like Mandela, whose broad opposition to such a tyrannical regime we would support?

Mr. Waterson: The hon. Gentleman has anticipated my next point, which is that much of the debate that he has instigated has been about whether the Attorney-General's consent should be a precondition for a prosecution or whether some other mechanism can be arrived at for what the hon. Gentleman described in Committee as high-profile cases--those sensitive cases with a political and perhaps an international element. That is why I very much welcome the announcement made by my hon. Friend the Minister, as I am sure that the hon. Gentleman does. The announcement meets the legitimate concerns expressed in our debates. We cannot permit people who come to this country as a safe haven to abuse our hospitality by plotting to commit criminal acts abroad and let them go unpunished. I commend the Bill to the House.

1.11 pm

Mr. Skinner: I have listened to my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow, Hillhead (Mr. Galloway), who attempted earlier to stop the proceedings. I was a couple of minutes late for that. I heard the generality of his views.

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I suspect that the Bill was introduced by the hon. Member for Eastbourne (Mr. Waterson) because it came off a Home Office shelf. It is, to all intents and purposes, a Government Bill.


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