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Mr. Michael: I am grateful for the Minister's response and for the fact that he has taken the trouble to consider the matter further, as promised. We would have liked him to move further, but at least his consideration has proved fruitful.
At every stage of the Bill, we have sought to improve it and speed its passage. It is a measure that we have long desired to see on the statute book. I therefore do not intend to prolong our debate now, and I am sure that the matter will be considered further in another place.
I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Amendments made: No. 2, in page 15, line 41, leave out 'and'.
No. 3, in page 15, line 42, at end insert
No. 4, in page 16, line 1, leave out '(iv), (v) and (vi)' and insert 'and (iv) to (vii)'.
No. 5, in page 16, line 11, leave out
and insert
Order for Third Reading read.
Mr. Maclean:
I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time.
Today's debate has covered a number of aspects of the Bill, some of which have been specific--for example, whether this or that offence should be included--and other points have been much wider, including, for example, the complicated issue of police practice in the use and disclosure of information.
It has not been possible for the Government to accept all the points that have been made. None the less, I appreciate the spirit in which they have been put forward from both sides of the House. I thank the hon. Members who have taken part in our proceedings, whether tonight, in Committee or on Second Reading.
Our debate on the Bill has strengthened and improved it as a measure for the protection of children. I am also grateful for the input to the debate provided by others with an interest. The police and other agencies involved with child welfare have provided invaluable insights into the practical aspects of how the registration requirement will work.
Those have enabled us to develop and improve on our original proposals to ensure that the registration requirement will really work in practice. I cannot emphasise too much how grateful I am to those people, especially those in the Association of Chief Police Officers, who have been enormously helpful.
Mr. McFall:
I welcome the progress that the Government have made. As has been said already, we had a fruitful discussion in Committee, Frankly, however, I do not believe that the Government have moved far enough. The Bill will play its part in what needs to be a more comprehensive response to child abuse. The omission that we tried to put right by tabling new clauses 2 and 3 will weaken it considerably.
We must take account of public opinion. I feel that Parliament is out of synch with public opinion. The Minister is aware of the situation in Scotland. Only today, Scotland's best-selling newspaper, the Daily Record, devotes its front page to "Scotland's Child Abuse Scandal".
The Daily Record is setting up an eight-point campaign to highlight the issue--a campaign that I support in detail. The paper says that information on child sex offences in Scotland is not available. It points out that statistics on cruelty to animals are available, but that on sex offences the information is not forthcoming.
People from the Daily Record contacted the Secretary of State's Office in Scotland but were told that he was too busy. Only last week the right hon. Gentleman contacted a local newspaper reporter whom I know. An open letter had been written, and the Secretary of State invited the reporter into his office to put his point of view. Yet when he was asked which information was available and which was not, he was too busy to reply.
The newspaper also contacted the Crown Office for information, but there, too, the message was that there was none. When will the Government put that information into the public domain? By failing to do so, they do a disservice to the many hundreds, even thousands, of people affected.
The sad fact is that paedophiles cause manifold damage. For every case that comes to court, hundreds of similar offences have been committed. Aberdeen university recently undertook a study in which 34 sex offenders, who had been convicted of 115 offences among them, confessed to having actually committed 1,500 offences. The court cases are the tip of the iceberg.
It is ironic that it should be this evening, when "No Child of Mine" is being screened--it could be happening at this very moment--that we are passing legislation that does not go far enough. The hon. Member for Billericay (Mrs. Gorman) and I went to the presentation of "No Child of Mine". I did not see any other Members of Parliament there. It was a long film, and the hon. Lady walked out. So far as I know, she had first asked, "Why is this being shown?"
That is symptomatic of the approach that our society has taken. We cannot deal with child abuse here: sure, we can deal with it when it is abroad--in Bangkok and other such places--but if it happens in Glasgow, Cardiff, Edinburgh, Bournemouth or wherever, then we cannot deal with it.
We must face up to the issues. The Government's lack of resolve was illustrated by the fact that they wanted to enact the legislation through a private Member's Bill. Only the resolve of the Opposition ensured that we had a Government Bill. We want the Bill to succeed, but it does not go far enough. The Government have shown themselves out of sync with the people.
Mr. Thurnham:
I support the Bill, but I feel that it is only half or a quarter of a loaf. I hope that it will be strengthened in another place in the manner for which we argued on Second Reading, in Committee, and again today.
There should be a code of practice to give guidance to the police and, most of all, there should be a requirement for previous offenders who are known to the police to register. At present, about 50,000 previous offenders escape the provisions of the Bill. It should be simple for the police, when they are in contact with them, to require notification of a change of address.
The Bill should be strengthened, and I hope that my arguments about children will be well considered in the other place, without the pressures of time that we have had tonight. I look forward to the Bill reaching the statute book, but I hope that it will do so in a greatly improved state.
Question put and agreed to.
Bill accordingly read the Third time, and passed.
Motion made, and Question put forthwith, pursuant to Standing Order No. 102(9) (European Standing Committees).
Mr. Peter Thurnham (Bolton, North-East):
I have two petitions to present--one on the Lever Park Bill and one, most appropriately, on the Sex Offenders Bill that we have been debating tonight. Even more appropriately, the latter comes from Oundle school in Northamptonshire--the school that I went to and one that you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, know well--and bears the signatures of more than 800 pupils and staff. The petition says:
'and
(vii) section 16 (assault with intent to commit buggery);'.
'indecent assault upon a male person'
'(assault with intent to commit buggery or indecent assault upon a male person)'.--[Mr. Maclean.]
9.48 pm
That this House takes note of European Community Document No. 11419/96, the Commission Green Paper on future noise policy; and endorses the Government's objective of opposing a number of the proposals on noise exposure when presenting the response of the United Kingdom to the Green Paper to the European Commission.--[Mr. Brandreth.]
25 Feb 1997 : Column 248
9.56 pm
To the Honourable the Commons of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland in Parliament assembled.
To lie upon the Table.
The Humble Petition of Staff and Students of Oundle School in the county of Northamptonshire with Members of Action for Children Campaign and other Citizens of the United Kingdom,
Sheweth that we have deep concern at continuing reports that citizens of developed nations travelling abroad may be encouraging the use of children in prostitution and pornography, that we are committed to the principles of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child which seeks to protect children from sexual exploitation; and believe that Her Majesty's Government should seek to play an active role in bringing about concerted international action to tackle this problem and in particular examine ways of ensuring that individuals involved in such exploitation are brought to justice within the United Kingdom.
Wherefore your Petitioners pray that your honourable House do introduce legislation to ensure that citizens of the United Kingdom who commit serious sexual offences against children abroad can be prosecuted in this country.
And your petitioners, as in duty bound, will ever pray, etc.
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