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Mr. Newton: I understand why my hon. Friend says that, and I suspect that many people will share his feelings. Again, as Chairman of the Committee, I think that it would be right for me to restrain myself.

Mr. Hugh Bayley (York): The Leader of the House will be aware of the Prime Minister's wish that the report should be published before the election. He will be aware

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of the view of the hon. Member for Tatton (Mr. Hamilton) that the report should be published before the election. The Select Committee on Standards and Privileges is a Committee of the House and works according to the decisions of the House. There is no reason why the House could not pass a resolution that Sir Gordon's report be published now and that the Committee consider it after the election. Will the Leader of the House make time for us to consider such a resolution, so that the report can be published?

Mr. Newton: I do not know whether the hon. Gentleman was present for your response, Madam Speaker, to points of order earlier this afternoon. You made it clear that publication in the way that the hon. Gentleman suggests was not an option.

Mr. Tim Yeo (South Suffolk): Has my right hon. Friend considered one possible advantage of delaying Prorogation, which would allow time for debates on the fact that the crime figures showed a fall on Monday, the public sector borrowing requirement came in lower than expected on Tuesday and the unemployment figures have shown a vast improvement today? Such debates would allow the House a chance to expose the fact that the policies recommended by the Labour party would jeopardise improvement on all three fronts.

Mr. Newton: I entirely agree that it would be nice to provide further opportunities for such debate, but at present I have no proposals to make such time available.

Mr. Harry Barnes (North-East Derbyshire): It is peace in our time on electoral registration figures. I hold a piece of paper on which is set out the global totals of people who are on electoral registers. The problem is that there is only tomorrow for names to be added to the lists, tomorrow being the last day for supplementary lists. The global totals show that there are still 3 million to 4 million people missing from electoral registers. Before we prorogue, should we not have an opportunity tomorrow, or even on Friday, to discuss the state of electoral registration? We are moving into a general election that will be based on the arrangements that I have described.

Mr. Newton: I cannot undertake to provide such an opportunity. However, I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on the fact that his persistence seems to have achieved even more than the undertaking that I understand he was given yesterday, when he was told that he would get the figures tomorrow. He seems to have received them a day earlier even than had been hoped.

Several hon. Members rose--

Madam Speaker: Thank you; that is the end.

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Northern Ireland Business

7.50 pm

The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Sir Patrick Mayhew): I beg to move,


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    (2) Notices of questions given under this order shall bear an indication that they are for oral answer in the Northern Ireland Grand Committee.
    (3) No more than one notice of a question may be given under this order by any member of the committee for each day specified under paragraph (1) of Standing Order No. 99 H (Northern Ireland Grand Committee (sittings)) for the taking of questions.
    (4) On any day so specified under paragraph (1) of Standing Order No. 99 H (Northern Ireland Grand Committee (sittings)), questions shall be taken at the commencement of the sitting; no such question shall be taken later than half an hour after the commencement of the proceedings thereon; and replies to questions not reached shall be printed with the Official Report of the committee's debates for that day.
    (5) Notices of questions under this order may be given ten sitting days before that on which an answer is desired, save where otherwise provided by a memorandum under paragraph (8) of Standing Order No. 18 (Notices of questions, motions and amendments):
    Provided that when it is proposed that the House shall adjourn for a period of fewer than four days, any day during that period (other than a Saturday or a Sunday) shall be counted as a sitting day for the purposes of the calculation made under this paragraph.
    99 C. Northern Ireland Grand Committee (short debates)
    (1) Notices of subjects to be raised in short debates in the Northern Ireland Grand Committee, on a day specified in an order made under paragraph (1) of Standing Order No. 99 H (Northern Ireland Grand Committee (sittings)), may be given by members of the committee in the Table Office.
    (2) Subjects of which notice is given under paragraph (1) of this order must relate to Northern Ireland.
    (3) Not more than one notice of a subject may be given under this order by any member of the committee for each day specified under paragraph (1) of Standing Order No. 99 H (Northern Ireland Grand Committee (sittings)) for the holding of short debates.
    (4) On any day so specified such debates shall be held at the commencement of the sitting or, if the order under paragraph (1) specifies also the taking of questions on that day, immediately after questions.
    (5) (a) No Member except the Minister of the Crown replying to the debate shall be called to speak later than half an hour after the commencement of the first such debate.
    (b) The Member who gave notice of the subject and the Minister of the Crown replying to the debate may each speak for five minutes. Other Members may speak for three minutes.
    (c) The chairman may direct any Member who exceeds the limits in sub-paragraph (b) to resume his seat forthwith.
    (6) Notice of subjects under this order may be given ten sitting days before that on which they are sought to be raised:
    Provided that when it is proposed that the House shall adjourn for a period of fewer than four days, any day during that period (other than a Saturday or a Sunday) shall be counted as a sitting day for the purposes of the calculation made under this paragraph.
    99 D. Northern Ireland Grand Committee (ministerial statements).
    (1) The chairman of the Northern Ireland Grand Committee may permit a Minister of the Crown, whether or not a Member of the House, to make a statement, of which prior notice has been given to him, on a matter relating to Northern Ireland, and to answer questions thereon put by members of the committee.
    (2) Ministerial statements may be made--
    (a) at the commencement of a sitting; or
    (b) if questions are taken, immediately after the conclusion of proceedings thereon; or
    (c) if short debates are held, immediately after the conclusion of those proceedings.

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    (3) Proceedings under this order shall be brought to a conclusion at the discretion of the chairman.
    (4) A Minister of the Crown making a statement under paragraph (1) of this order, who is not a Member of the House, may not do so from the body of the committee; and shall not vote, make any motion or be counted in the quorum.
    99 E. Northern Ireland Grand Committee (bills in relation to their principle)
    (1) On the order being read for the second reading of a public bill relating exclusively to Northern Ireland, a motion may be made by a Minister of the Crown (or in the case of a private Member's bill, by the Member in charge of the bill), 'That the bill be referred to the Northern Ireland Grand Committee', and the question thereon shall be put forthwith and may be decided at any hour, though opposed:
    Provided that such a motion may be made by a private Member only with the leave of the House.
    (2) A bill so referred to the Northern Ireland Grand Committee shall be considered on a motion, 'That the Committee has considered the bill in relation to its principle', and, when the committee has considered that question for a total of two and a half hours (whether on one or more than one day), the chairman shall put the question necessary to dispose of the motion, and shall then report accordingly to the House (or shall report that the committee has come to no resolution), without any further question being put thereon:
    Provided that a Minister of the Crown may, immediately before the motion 'That the Committee has considered the bill in relation to its principle' is made, make without notice a motion to extend the time-limit specified in this paragraph; and the question on such motion shall be put forthwith.
    (3) A bill in respect of which a report has been made under paragraph (2) above shall be ordered to be read a second time on a future day.
    (4) When a motion shall have been made for the second reading of a bill to which paragraph (3) above applies, the question thereon shall be put forthwith and may be decided at any hour, though opposed.
    (5) At the conclusion of proceedings on consideration on report of a bill in respect of which a report has been made under paragraph (2) above, or on the order being read for the third reading of such a bill, a motion may be made by a Minister of the Crown (or in the case of a private Member's bill by the Member in charge of the bill), 'That the Bill be referred again to the Northern Ireland Grand Committee', and the question thereon shall be put forthwith and may be decided at any hour, though opposed:
    Provided that such a motion may be made by a private Member only with the leave of the House.
    (6) A bill so referred again to the Northern Ireland Grand Committee shall be considered on a motion, 'That the Committee has further considered the bill in relation to its principle', and, when the committee has considered that question for a total of one and a half hours (whether on one or more than one day), the chairman shall put the question necessary to dispose of the motion, and shall then report accordingly to the House (or shall report that the committee has come to no resolution), without any further question being put thereon:
    Provided that a Minister of the Crown may, immediately before the motion 'That the Committee has further considered the bill in relation to its principle' is made, make without notice a motion to extend the time-limit specified in this paragraph; and the question on such motion shall be put forthwith.
    (7) A bill in respect of which a report has been made under paragraph (6) above shall be ordered to be read the third time on a future day.
    (8) When a motion shall have been made for the third reading of a bill to which paragraph (7) above applies, the question thereon shall be put forthwith and may be decided at any hour, though opposed.
    99 F. Northern Ireland Grand Committee (legislative proposals and other matters relating exclusively to Northern Ireland)

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    (1) A motion may be made by a Minister of the Crown at the commencement of public business to the effect that a legislative proposal or other specified matter relating exclusively to Northern Ireland be referred to the Northern Ireland Grand Committee for its consideration, and the question thereon shall be put forthwith.
    (2) If such a motion be agreed to, the committee shall consider the legislative proposal or matter referred to it and shall report only that it has considered the said legislative proposal or matter.
    (3) In this order and in Standing Orders No. 99 A (Northern Ireland Grand Committee (composition and business)) andNo. 99 H (Northern Ireland Grand Committee (sittings)) 'a legislative proposal' means a proposal for a draft Order in Council relating exclusively to Northern Ireland.
    99 G. Northern Ireland Grand Committee (delegated legislation)
    (1) Where--
    (a) a Member has given notice of a motion for a humble address to Her Majesty praying that a statutory instrument be annulled, or of a motion of a similar character relating to a statutory instrument or to any other instrument (whether or not in draft) which may be subject to proceedings in the House in pursuance of a statute, or of a motion that the House takes note of a statutory instrument, or
    (b) a Minister of the Crown has given notice of a motion to the effect that an instrument (whether or not in draft) upon which proceedings may be taken in pursuance of an Act of Parliament (other than a draft deregulation order) be approved,
    a motion may be made by a Minister of the Crown, 'That the instrument be referred to the Northern Ireland Grand Committee'; and the question on such motion shall be put forthwith and may be decided at any hour, though opposed.
    (2) The Committee shall consider each instrument referred to it on a motion, 'That the Committee has considered the instrument'; and the chairman shall put any question necessary to dispose of the proceedings on the motion, if not previously disposed of, not later than two and a half hours after the commencement of proceedings thereon; and shall thereupon report the instrument to the House without any further question being put:
    Provided that a Minister of the Crown may, immediately before the motion 'That the Committee has considered the instrument' is made, make without notice a motion to extend to three hours the time-limit specified in this paragraph; and the question on such motion shall be put forthwith.
    (3) If any motion is made in the House of the kind specified in paragraph 1(a) or 1(b) of this order, in relation to any instrument in respect of which a report has been made to the House in accordance with paragraph (2) of this order, the Speaker shall put forthwith the question thereon; which may be decided at any hour, though opposed.
    99 H. Northern Ireland Grand Committee (sittings)
    (1) A motion may be made by a Minister of the Crown providing (or varying previous provision) for the Northern Ireland Grand Committee--
    (a) to sit on not more than two specified days in Northern Ireland (at places to be named by the Member appointed chairman), the sitting commencing, and proceedings being interrupted, at such hours as shall be specified;
    (b) to sit on other specified days at Westminster at such hours as shall be specified;
    (c) to take questions under Standing Order No. 99 B (Northern Ireland Grand Committee (questions for oral answer)) on certain of the days specified under paragraph (a) or paragraph (b) above;
    (d) to hold short debates under Standing Order No. 99 C (Northern Ireland Grand Committee (short debates)) on certain of the days so specified;

19 Mar 1997 : Column 954

    (e) to consider specified bills which shall have been referred to it under Standing Order No. 99 E (Northern Ireland Grand Committee (bills in relation to their principle)) on certain of the days so specified;
    (f) to consider legislative proposals and other specified matters which shall have been referred to it under Standing Order No. 99 F (Northern Ireland Grand Committee (legislative proposals and other matters relating exclusively to Northern Ireland)) on certain of the days so specified;
    (g) to consider specified instruments (whether or not in draft) which shall have been referred to it under Standing Order No. 99 G (Northern Ireland Grand Committee (delegated legislation)) on certain of the days so specified; and
    (h) to consider motions for the adjournment of the committee made under paragraph (5) below on certain of the days so specified;
    and the Speaker shall put forthwith the question on such a motion, which may be decided at any hour, though opposed:
    Provided that nothing in this order shall prevent the committee from considering further at a sitting at Westminster business adjourned at a previous sitting in Northern Ireland, nor from considering at a sitting in Northern Ireland business adjourned at a sitting at Westminster.
    (2) The provisions of Standing Order No. 88 (Meetings of standing committees), so far as they relate to the naming of a day in respect of business by the Member appointed chairman and the committee's appointment of future days in respect of business not completed at a sitting, shall not apply to the Northern Ireland Grand Committee.
    (3) The chairman shall interrupt proceedings (other than on a motion made under paragraph (5) below) at the time specified in relation to the sitting by an order made under paragraph (1) above or, in the absence of such provision, at one o'clock, subject to paragraph (2) of Standing Order No. 88 (Meetings of standing committees).
    (4) At the moment of interruption, proceedings under consideration and not disposed of shall stand adjourned.
    (5) On a day specified in an order made under paragraph (1) above, after the interruption of proceedings, or on the completion of the business appointed for consideration at that sitting, whichever is the earlier, a motion for the adjournment of the committee may be made by a Minister of the Crown, and, notwithstanding the provisions of Standing Order No. 88 (Meetings of standing committees) the chairman shall, not later than half an hour after the motion has been made, adjourn the committee without putting any question; and in respect of business taken under this paragraph, the quorum of the committee shall be three.

My right hon. Friend the Leader of the House has asked me to convey his apologies to the House for his absence, which is due to other pressing business which he cannot postpone. The House will know the nature of it.

Ever since the onset of direct rule in 1972, successive Governments have been aware of the democratic deficit in the arrangements for the government of Northern Ireland. That is why we place so much importance on the multi-party talks that have been going on in Belfast over the past nine months. The future well-being of Northern Ireland requires that, as part of a comprehensive settlement based upon consent, progress is made in restoring democratic accountability in the Province.

We do not, however, have to wait for what we all hope will be a successful outcome to the talks process before anything can be done. The present arrangements in Parliament for scrutinising the affairs of Northern Ireland can be improved at once. Over the years, a number of such improvements have already been made. For example,

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we established the Northern Ireland Committee in 1975. Since 1976, we have published Northern Ireland Orders in Council in draft. The purpose has been to give right hon. and hon. Members, as well as other interested persons and bodies, the opportunity to comment on the legislation and to propose changes before the House is asked to approve the order.

Then, in 1994, the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee was established so as to secure proper scrutiny by the House of the departments for which I am responsible. I am sure that all agree that it has since proved itself well, producing a number of valuable reports. It was at that time that the Northern Ireland Committee was renamed the Northern Ireland Grand Committee.

It was with the same motivation that my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister announced last October his intention to introduce the changes detailed in the motion. As he explained in that speech, Scottish and Welsh Members had recently been given greater ability to question Ministers, and my right hon. Friend wished to extend that same facility to Northern Ireland.

In October 1996, I wrote to the leaders of the Northern Ireland parties represented at Westminster, and to the Opposition parties, explaining how this might be done, and seeking views. There is still some diversity of view on our proposals, but the Government believe that we should now move forward with changes that will bring an immediate benefit to the governance of Northern Ireland.

I shall outline the principal changes briefly. Northern Ireland Office Ministers would in future make the public expenditure survey statement for Northern Ireland to the Grand Committee, in place of the current briefing arrangements. Northern Ireland Office Ministers, including any Minister in another place, would make statements and take questions in Committee on a regular basis. Cabinet and other departmental Ministers whose responsibilities extend to Northern Ireland would be able to make statements before the Grand Committee, and be questioned on them. It is intended, subject to a suitable venue or venues being identified, that some Grand Committee meetings should be held in a Northern Ireland venue.

Greater use would be made of the existing power to hold debates, both general in character and to consider specific proposals for draft Orders in Council. Those meetings which are held under the existing Standing Orders always prove valuable. It should also be possible on a Government motion for draft Northern Ireland orders and Orders in Council to be referred to the Grand Committee, instead of to a Standing Committee, or be taken on the Floor of the House, as at present.

The Northern Ireland Grand Committee would be able, on a Government motion, to consider certain Bills relating exclusively to Northern Ireland. In effect, this would be in the form of Second and Third Reading debates. There would finally also be provision for half-hour Adjournment debates at the end of Grand Committee meetings. Those changes would bring the Northern Ireland Grand Committee broadly into line with the Scottish and Welsh equivalents.

I shall not be recommending any changes to the membership of the Northern Ireland Grand Committee, which will remain as now--that is, all Northern Ireland Members, plus up to 25 others. Nor am I proposing a set number of meetings. I shall, however, be recommending

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that the quorum be reduced from 14 to 10. That last point is to bring the Northern Ireland Grand Committee more into line with the Welsh and Scottish equivalents.

The changes that we are proposing are entirely without prejudice to any developments that there may be in the multi-party negotiations or to the future relationship between any new political institutions in Northern Ireland and the Westminster Parliament. Of course, in the event of future devolution of functions to local representatives, there will be a corresponding diminution in the role of the Grand Committee.

The changes will self-evidently enable the Grand Committee to examine Government policy in greater detail. That is a good thing. They will valuably allow members of the Committee to bring to bear their own detailed and local knowledge of Northern Ireland matters. The measures will significantly improve the accountability of government under the circumstances of direct rule. They will provide new opportunities for right hon. and hon. Members to undertake detailed scrutiny of the Government's policy and performance in Northern Ireland. I commend the motion to the House.

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