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Mr. Radice: I do not know whether the right hon. Gentleman has noticed, but we have just had a referendum. It is called a general election, and we won. We won on the social chapter and our policy of producing a result at Amsterdam. As usual, the right hon. Gentleman is simply trying it on. Is this not his bid for leadership for the Tory party?
Mr. Redwood: There was no referendum on Europe. A general election covers all issues, and is a judgment on the rival programmes of the Government and Opposition parties. We know the verdict of the people on the general issue, but not on the European issue. However, the Prime Minister, then the Leader of the Opposition, became extremely Euro-sceptic during the election campaign, because at one point he was deeply worried that he would lose votes by being too friendly to Brussels and offering to surrender too many powers.
I repeat that, in fairness, the Government should hold a referendum if they wish to surrender any more of Britain's democratic powers. I wonder whether some Ministers
around the Cabinet table have realised how difficult their task will be to achieve what they want for the regions of the United Kingdom, to implement their environmental policies and to champion the cause of our industry if they surrender those vetoes and have to accept the verdict of those around the Council table. They will discover that they will not always predominate, and they will be forced to act against their will.
I do not think that the new Ministers have any idea of the legal minefield into which they are leading the country, and how damaging it will be to our future as a vibrant, independent democracy, if they surrender all those powers.
Mr. Dennis Canavan (Falkirk, West):
If that was meant to be an election address by the right hon. Member for Wokingham (Mr. Redwood), it is clear that if he becomes Leader of the Opposition, the Tory party will be vulcanised into opposition for many years to come. If he is intent on intervening in the referendum campaign in Scotland, the more often he comes up to Scotland the better, as I am sure that his presence there will help to maximise a double-yes vote in the referendum.
This is the first time in nearly 20 years that I have been able to give a general welcome to the contents of a Queen's Speech. It contains many measures that I whole-heartedly support, particularly those to improve education and training opportunities for young people by using the proceeds of a windfall tax and the abolition of the assisted places scheme. I also welcome the Government's commitment to introduce a national minimum wage to end the exploitation of low-paid workers.
The proposed ban on the private possession of handguns and the ban on tobacco advertising, will, I hope, help to save lives, and the national health service reforms should help to transfer resources from bureaucracy to patient care. However, in respect of the national health service and education, it is not enough simply to transfer resources from existing budgets. Those services require an injection of additional resources to bring about the necessary improvements and I hope that my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer will bear that in mind.
I congratulate my right hon. Friend the Chancellor on his victory over the European Commission in his efforts to reduce VAT on domestic fuel and power, but I cannot say the same about his recent decision to give the Bank of England control over interest rates. It is ironic that, having campaigned for 18 years to get our hands on the levers of power, within less than a week of achieving that we have handed over one of the most powerful levers to the bankers. My right hon. Friend the Chancellor has said that it will lead to more stability, but we shall see.
I shall address most of my remarks to constitutional matters, particularly the proposed referendum on a Scottish Parliament. Last August, I wrote a rather prophetic article in the Herald stating:
In Scotland and Wales, we have received the greatest mandate that any Government have ever received for constitutional change. The Tory party, the party of the status quo, was annihilated at the general election. More than 90 per cent. of Scottish constituencies returned representatives of parties that are committed to the Scottish Constitutional Convention scheme for a Scottish Parliament. With such a mandate, there should be no need to pussyfoot around with a White Paper and then a referendum. The Government are, however, obviously committed to holding a referendum and, in those circumstances, the sooner it is held the better. I shall certainly be campaigning as hard as anyone for a double-yes vote: yes for a Scottish Parliament and yes for revenue-raising powers.
The Tories' so-called tartan tax campaign failed to win them a single seat in Scotland, so we should be more positive in putting the case for a Scottish Parliament that has legislative and economic powers, including revenue-raising powers. No meaningful Parliament anywhere in the world is without revenue-raising powers. If the people of Scotland want to spare an extra penny or twopence in tax to create a better national health service or better educational opportunities for their children, that is their democratic right, and the House should not stand in their way.
I still do not think that holding a referendum is a particularly good idea, but the Government are obviously determined to hold one. In view of that, I urge my right hon. and hon. Friends to hold the referendum and introduce legislation to set up a Scottish Parliament as soon as possible. I urge them to get that legislation on the statute book in this Session. I was pleased to hear my right hon. Friend the Leader of the Opposition give such a commitment in reply to my question earlier in the debate.
Mr. John McAllion (Dundee, East):
The Prime Minister.
Mr. Canavan:
Sorry, my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister. Like him, I am finding it difficult getting used to the new terminology. I was delighted to hear my right hon. Friend reiterate the commitment.
Rev. Ian Paisley (North Antrim):
I congratulate you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, on presiding over our proceedings and wish you well in your role as the Chairman of Ways and Means. I hope that I will not run foul of your rulings, and that, one with the other, we will live in peace. Nevertheless, those of us who represent minorities have a duty to speak our minds and represent those who sent us to the House.
I very much welcome the assurance given by the Prime Minister today in answer to my question. The promise to all parties to the talks that are going on at the moment was that, whatever the outcome, the final voice heard would be that of the people. It is clear that there will be the opportunity in Scotland and Wales to vote in referendums. It is only fair that any proposals that emerge from the talks should go before the people.
I welcome the assurance today more than ever because we are entering a very serious time in our Province. There are heightening Unionist fears and heightening fears among the nationalist people. The past weeks have seen an upsurge in evil crime in our Province. A Roman Catholic man was beaten to death in Portadown and, in a tit-for-tat retaliation, a Protestant man was viciously beaten to the point of death in Londonderry. A police officer was murdered in Belfast, and the night before last republicans in Dungannon attacked the homes of Protestants. Only by the mercy of God did two families escape burning to death. The oldest Presbyterian church in Northern Ireland, Carland Presbyterian church, was attacked at the same time. In County Antrim, a Roman Catholic man who trained young people in engineering techniques in my constituency was brutally murdered.
There is a downward spiral of terrorism. It is therefore important that the people of Northern Ireland are assured about what the new Government are going to be up to.
The right hon. Member for Wokingham (Mr. Redwood) had some things to say about Europe. My attitude to Europe is very well known. There is a change in Europe. The hon. Member for Foyle (Mr. Hume), the leader of the SDLP, and I had a meeting with Emma Bonino at seven o'clock this morning. It was the most constructive meeting that we have ever had. It seems that, with the Labour Government coming into power, there will be a definite movement on the beef crisis. We certainly all came away greatly encouraged. I hope that such movement will occur.
In addition, the President of the European Commission made a very good announcement yesterday. He told the hon. Member for Foyle, Mr. Nicholson, the other Northern Irish Member of the European Parliament, and myself that the Commission would continue its payments of special peace and reconciliation money to Ulster. That payment was due to stop at the end of three years, but is now to continue for five years. Over next year and the year after, 100 million ecu will go to Northern Ireland, which I certainly welcome.
I trust that there will be a resolution of the beef crisis. Our economy is based on beef. Economies in other parts of the United Kingdom share the need for such a resolution. It is a matter of great urgency that the beef crisis is resolved. Voices have been raised in the House about the way in which that should be done. Parts of the country that can fulfil the criteria should not be held back by other parts that cannot. A start could be made and we
could resolve the problem altogether for every part of the United Kingdom, which I am sure every hon. Member would welcome. There is some movement in Europe, and I trust that it will continue.
We need to look again at the policies that the Conservative party foisted on the people of Northern Ireland. I heard the very strong appeal of the right hon. Member for Wokingham that the people should be consulted. The people of Northern Ireland were never consulted about what the Tories did. I was amazed to hear what he said about asking the people. A piece of Tory legislation said that it did not matter how many people voted in Northern Ireland as long as there was a 1 per cent. majority--even if only 30 per cent. of all the people voted. The status of Northern Ireland within the United Kingdom has been changed. Now the right hon. Gentleman is saying that we must have weighted majorities. I hope that he will extend that logic to Northern Ireland--but I doubt it.
The people of Scotland have every right to say in a referendum how they wish to be governed in the United Kingdom. The people of Wales have every right to do the same. There is a great argument about what will happen if we have local Parliaments and whether one should speak on matters that relate to what is happening under them. That happened in Ulster. I was a Member of both Stormont and this House and there was never any difficulty about it. Members from both Parliaments were able to ask questions that related to what was happening in Northern Ireland. Perhaps the Government should look back at what happened in previous times.
I trust that what the Prime Minister said today about education, employment and youth training will be applied rigorously in Northern Ireland. At present, Northern Ireland faces the serious loss of 2,000 jobs in the action for community employment programme. Those assisted jobs, in which young people were given skills training, will be lost. That Tory Government policy was resisted by both the SDLP and the Unionist Members. Nevertheless, the axe is coming down and 2,000 jobs for young people will be cut off at a stroke. I hope that the Government will be able to prevent those swingeing cuts, already decided by the outgoing Tory Government, from taking place in Northern Ireland.
A total of 600 teachers in Northern Ireland are to lose their jobs. The Conservative Government said that they were translating the money from education to defence. Children and parents in Northern Ireland are to suffer because of IRA and other terrorists. That would not be tolerated in any other part of the United Kingdom. Therefore, I trust that the principles set out by the Prime Minister will be applied as rigorously in Northern Ireland as in the rest of the United Kingdom.
Many of the teachers who are to lose their jobs will be mature teachers taking voluntary redundancy because they have been told that there is no place for them. If mature teachers are taken out of a school, new teachers will have no one to help them with their problems. They will be on their own. The resulting gap in a child's education can never be made up. I make a plea to the House today to think of the children of Northern Ireland.
If it had been suggested to the people of Manchester that, because of the horrific bomb there, money was to be taken from the city's schools, there would have been an
outcry in the House. If it had been said that there would be larger classes and fewer teachers around Canary Wharf, that, too, would have caused an outcry. Yet that is what is happening in Northern Ireland. I welcome the fact that the Government have today set out their stall and said what they are aiming at.
A previous Minister writing to us in Northern Ireland about the teachers said:
I welcome the fact that the Government will take those matters on board. I welcome the Ministers who have been appointed to consider those matters. I trust that the bread and butter issues will be handled in a way that will give hope, comfort and strength to our people.
"Just imagine the scenario in the immediate aftermath of a Labour victory at the next General Election.
However, the Labour leadership, in their wisdom or otherwise, have decided to publish a White Paper and then hold a referendum before introducing the legislation to set up a Scottish Parliament. I fail to see how that will speed up the legislative process.
The Tories will be in a state of complete disarray. They will be deeply divided, totally demoralised and much of their remaining energy will be dissipated in the search for a new leader. Those early months of a new Parliament would be the optimum time to hit the enemy when at their weakest, before they have time to reorganise. In such circumstances, there would be obvious advantages in introducing at the earliest opportunity the Bill to set up a Scottish Parliament in order to fulfil Labour's pledge to pass the legislation within the first Parliamentary Session."
"Over the last two years the improved security situation meant that it was possible to transfer substantial sums from the Northern Ireland Law and Order budget to other Northern Ireland programmes, and schools and their pupils have shared in the benefits of this . . . At the time it was necessary to make clear that if the security situation worsened the savings from the Law and Order budget might have to be restored."
None of us had ever heard that before. No such statement was made. The Minister continued:
"This has been the case and over the next three years £120 million of resources released for other programmes such as education have had to be transferred back to the Law and Order programme."
One can understand why a letter in such terms resulted in an outcry in Northern Ireland.
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