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2.12 pm
The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr. Ron Davies): The debate today is not only about devolution but about the position of the constitution generally. I am sure that the right hon. Member for Devizes (Mr. Ancram) appreciates that. I thank him on behalf of the Secretary of State for Scotland--my right hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow, Anniesland (Mr. Dewar)--and myself for the good wishes that he expressed to both of us at the start of the debate. I in turn wish him well in what will be a difficult and arduous task in the years to come. As he said, we have not debated together on many previous occasions, but I hope that we shall spend a long time in our present respective positions and get to know each other much better in the years to come.
I should like to reply to two particular points that the right hon. Member for Devizes made. First, let me assure him that, well before the referendums are held in Scotland and Wales, White Papers will be produced for both Scotland and Wales and the people of both countries will be adequately informed of what the Government propose. Secondly, the right hon. Gentleman spoke movingly and properly about the rights of Parliament. Let me assure him
that Parliament will decide its own procedures for dealing with those matters. That is an appropriate way to deal with them.
Mr. Bernard Jenkin:
Will the Secretary of State give way?
Mr. Davies:
No, I want to make a little progress. If there is time, I will give way later, but I have a number of points that I wish to cover.
This has been a well-attended, interesting and well-informed debate. I apologise that I shall not respond directly to the many powerful speeches that we have heard from both sides of the House, except for my responses to the speeches of new Members of Parliament and of two others--the right hon. Member for Richmond, Yorks (Mr. Hague), who opened the debate, and the leader of the Ulster Unionists, the hon. Member for Upper Bann (Mr. Trimble).
I pay tribute to the maiden speeches made today. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Keighley (Mrs. Cryer) on her election and assure her that there is a warm welcome for her in the House. It was a poignant occasion for her, as her late husband was a very active and well, respected Member of the House. Her son now represents the constituency of Hornchurch, so it will be a memorable occasion for her. She has already given notice that she will be an independent champion of liberty--a cause that will be appreciated on both sides of the House.
My hon. Friend the Member for Enfield, Southgate (Mr. Twigg) also spoke and I warmly congratulate him on his magnificent victory. That victory will be welcomed by many hon. Members, and I can assure him that not all of them sit on the Government Benches. My hon. Friend paid a fulsome tribute to his predecessor. He also spoke powerfully, eloquently and knowledgeably of his constituency and of his commitment to constitutional reform. He has made an early mark in this Parliament and he will always be listened to with great interest.
The hon. Member for Galloway and Upper Nithsdale (Mr. Morgan) paid tribute to his predecessor, Mr. Ian Lang, which will be appreciated by Conservative colleagues of the former right hon. Member. The hon. Gentleman spoke knowledgably of his constituency and his country and I am sure that he will make a mark in this Parliament.
I welcome my hon. Friend the Member for Hornchurch (Mr. Cryer) and congratulate him on his memorable victory over Robin Squire, who was a senior and well-respected member of the House. The new Member for Hornchurch, in his presentation and in his forceful and direct speech, reminded me very much of his father, whom I knew very well. Like his father, he will be a Member to reckon with.
My hon. Friend the Member for Clwyd, West (Mr. Thomas) was the only Member from Wales to make a maiden speech. He paid tribute to both his predecessors, Sir Wyn Roberts and Rod Richards. He will be interested to know that Sir Wyn Roberts declared his support this morning for an elected Assembly for Wales. As Sir Wyn was a well-liked and respected Member of the House--he was the longest serving Welsh Office Minister that we ever had--and as he retired at the last election with the full knowledge of contemporary politics and the problems of our democracy in Wales, his views will carry a great
deal of weight. He is, of course, only the latest to join a growing chorus of Conservative party members and leaders in Wales who now acknowledge that we must have a commitment to devolution.
The election victory of my hon. Friend the Member for Clwyd, West gave me particular satisfaction as he took the last Conservative seat in Wales. His speech was confident, thoughtful and well delivered. In managing to pay an eloquent tribute to Rod Richards, who was not always the most popular Member of the House, my hon. Friend also showed a rare political skill.
I congratulate the hon. Member for Torbay (Mr. Sanders) on a thoughtful and confident speech. He acknowledged his predecessor, Rupert Allason, who was a colourful character and a man with an independent mind. If the new hon. Member for Torbay applies those qualities, he will serve his new constituency--which he obviously knows very well--with distinction.
The hon. Gentleman's colleague on the Liberal Democrat Benches, the new hon. Member for Sutton and Cheam (Mr. Burstow), replaced a colourful character who was an active Member of the House and he paid tribute to her. The hon. Gentleman is rightly proud of his constituency and of the increased representation of his party in the House. I am sure that he will be a diligent representative of his constituency.
I now come to the speech of the right hon. Member for Richmond, Yorks. I offer him a warm welcome in his new role. I know that he will enjoy it immensely, particularly the time that he will spend travelling from Richmond to Wales and the time that he will spend travelling around Wales, speaking to that small and dwindling band--the stalwarts of the Conservative party in Wales--and explaining to them why the Opposition, the Conservatives, must now set their face against devolution. He will have to try to explain why, having been rejected quite comprehensively in the polls because of their adherence to the status quo, they must now adhere to the status quo to provide them with their salvation. He will find that a very difficult task.
I should like, however, to pay two tributes to the right hon. Gentleman. He is a great educator and with his predecessor, the right hon. Member for Wokingham (Mr. Redwood), he made abundantly clear to us in Wales the unsatisfactory nature of Tory rule from London. My second tribute is that he brings a greater knowledge of Wales to his present job as shadow Secretary of State for Wales than he did when he was appointed Secretary of State.
The right hon. Gentleman made an entertaining speech. It was well practised--and so it should be, as he has made it several times in the past couple of months in various locations and combinations. Sometimes it was with lions, sometimes with Union Jacks, sometimes with Michael Forsyth--and on one memorable occasion it was with all three. The right hon. Gentleman does not seem to have noticed, however, that that speech did not impress the electorate and it does not impress members of this Government. As the Conservative party seeks to come to terms with its failure to represent the interests of the people who voted for it, I should have thought that that party--and the right hon. Gentleman in particular, given his experience in Wales--would take the opportunity for a more reflective look at the big issues that are facing us.
The second exception is the hon. Member for Upper Bann. I am sorry that I missed much of his speech and that he is not in the Chamber now. Obviously, he spoke with great knowledge of affairs in Northern Ireland and I must place on record the fact that I welcome the support that he gave for devolution and assure him that this Government, like the last, will not flinch in the face of terrorism and that any constitutional change in the north of Ireland will be based firmly on the principle of consent.
The proposals set out in the Queen's Speech reflect the Government's determination to give Britain a modern constitution fit for the 21st century. The themes that we shall pursue are those of democratisation, decentralisation, openness and accountability, and respect and proper protection for human rights. Our agenda is one of sensible, incremental change to meet modern democratic demands.
There are fundamental problems with our present constitutional arrangements--problems which go far to explain public disillusion with our system of government. There is too much power centralised in the hands of too few people, many of them unelected, and too little freedom for local communities to decide their own priorities. Government holds more information than ever before, but the public still have no legal right to share information collected on them by their government.
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