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Mr. Clappison: As the Committee will have gathered, the amendment is of particular interest to many of my constituents. They and I realised that, when Labour set out in its manifesto its proposals to phase out the assisted places scheme, the problem of the sibling connection would arise. Of course, my constituents' fears were confirmed when the issue was included in the Queen's Speech and the Bill was then introduced as a priority.
I mentioned the sibling connection during the education debate on the Queen's Speech because I knew that many of my constituents would want me to do so. When I listened to that debate, I took heart from the words of the Secretary of State for Education and Employment. I thought that I was being realistic in accepting that the Labour party had a mandate for its policy--
Mr. Radice:
The hon. Member is the first Conservative to have said that.
Mr. Clappison:
As the hon. Gentleman says, I am the first to have said that, and we have many questions to ask about the policy. I do not know whether he was present when I was making my earlier points in connection with the savings to be made from the abolition of the assisted places scheme and whether or not they would be sufficient to pay for the Labour party's aspirations. That was the basis on which the pledge was made. I know that the hon. Gentleman, who is an astute and experienced Member, will have been less than convinced by the explanation about the finances given by the Minister.
Mr. Ian Bruce:
Surely my hon. Friend--like so many of my constituents--when reading a Bill that calls itself
Mr. Clappison:
Another important point has arisen: whether or not the savings will be transferred to schools through local authorities.
I want to be nice to the Under-Secretary of State for Education and Employment because I want her to listen carefully to this debate. To her credit, she has listened patiently, and I hope that I shall be able to change her mind. I am going to remind her of the words of the Secretary of State when he was asked about the sibling connection and existing places in the debate on the Queen's Speech. The right hon. Gentleman said:
I know the argument that is going through the Minister's mind. She has half canvassed the argument already, and it has also been echoed from the Liberal Benches. The argument advanced was that because there is a selection process for schools with assisted places, that invalidates the proposition that there has to be a sibling connection--it cannot be guaranteed that a sibling connection can be used if the sibling does not meet the necessary academic standard. I accept that that is a fair point and that it will take the Minister some way, but it will not take her far enough.
It may be the case--I believe that it is--that many siblings are sufficiently bright to have a highly academic education. Therefore, on the grounds that there is at least some prospect of a sibling connection being used, I hope that the Minister will think carefully about how she can preserve that connection.
The hon. Member for Harrogate and Knaresborough (Mr. Willis), who has long experience in, and is an authority on, education, posed what I call the Liberal question. I do not know his views on selection, but I suspect that, being a Liberal, he will probably oppose it. He will know from his experience that, if a child who is not academic goes to an academic school, it does him no favours because he has to struggle all the way through his school career, is unable to keep up with the other pupils and has a difficult time. The situation would be different if the child were bright.
I shall put it in practical terms--this is an issue that we need to consider in that way. The hon. Gentleman should think of the issue in terms of Bradford grammar school, which has a number of assisted places and of which people in his part of the world are every bit as proud as
people in my part of the world are proud of Haberdashers' Aske's. They are both highly academic schools, of great national prestige and kudos that achieve a great deal for their pupils.
The hon. Gentleman will know that it would not do a non-academic child any good to go to a school such as Bradford grammar; but if two brothers, say, are equally bright, that is an altogether different matter. It would be cruel not to allow the two children to go to the same school. The hon. Member for Harrogate and Knaresborough will, I am sure, take the point, based on experience of his part of the world.
Thus the Minister's argument that because of selection there is no guarantee that siblings can attend the same school does not go far enough to answer our arguments. We believe that there are many siblings in bright families who can go to the same schools.
It would be well worth conducting some research to find out how many children may be affected by the loss of assisted places for siblings. I agree with all my hon. Friends' arguments as to why it is desirable for siblings to attend the same school whenever that is possible. There are social reasons, reasons of family convenience, reasons of mutual support. Children may be affected by these decisions for the rest of their lives.
I invite the Minister to consider the matter in personal terms. My hon. Friend the Member for Chesham and Amersham did the Committee a service by doing just that: she put it in terms of the Benjamin Brady question. These days we seem to attach names to many of these questions: the Gary McAllister question, the Paul Gascoigne question and so on.
Again I urge the Minister to consider the personal consequences for children who may be affected. The thought that a child did not have the same opportunity as its brother or sister even though it was equally bright might affect that child for the rest of its life. This is not to denigrate the other schools that such children might be forced to attend. They may be performing well on any objective test, but, as the Minister knows, the schools that we are talking about are highly academic. Many of them are the old direct grant schools--Bradford grammar, Manchester grammar, Leeds grammar; others are old foundations such as Haberdashers' Aske's in my constituency. For a long time those schools have been centres of national excellence and renown, highly competitive and achieving very good results.
I know that some families with one son at Haberdashers' Aske's will want to place younger brothers there too. Those younger brothers may confidently be expected to pass the entrance exam. These people are waiting to hear what the Government have to say this evening. The same applies to the parents of girls in the sister school and in other schools in my constituency.
Like my hon. Friend the Member for Mid-Worcestershire (Mr. Luff), I invite the Minister to be flexible and to act compassionately. If she is prepared to consider the amendment or to accept it, it will not bring the Bill crashing down; it will not ruin the Government's policy. Relatively few people are involved, but they are extremely interested in the amendment.
I invite the Minister to think carefully and to be flexible. We do not know how many children will be affected. The Government might usefully carry out some research to ascertain whether there is a way of accommodating those families.
I understand that the Government want the Bill to be passed as soon as possible so that they can start phasing out assisted places, saving the money from the scheme and putting it towards reducing class sizes, but we have heard tonight that they are unsure about the financial picture. There may be a financial way of doing what the Government want to do and accommodating those families, so I ask the Minister to give the matter careful thought.
"The hallmark of this Government will be to put children before dogma. It will be to ensure that the interests of our children come first on every occasion."--[Official Report, 15 May 1997; Vol. 294, c.183.]
[Hon. Members: "Hear, hear."] I hear some support from Labour Members and I hope that the Minister will listen to it as well. I hope that the Government will be able to consider the interests of individual children and see whether it is necessary to do away with the sibling connection for pupils and whether the matter can be dealt with in a compassionate and flexible way that reflects the concerns that we have heard in so many contributions this evening.
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