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Clause 15
Mr. Paice: I beg to move amendment No. 12, in clause 15, page 7, line 29, leave out from the beginning to end of line 33 and insert--
'(a) that for the variety to which the application relates it is necessary in the public interest to do so, including the need to supply the market with material offering specified features, or to maintain the incentive for continued breeding of improved varieties,'.
The Minister will be aware that the amendment is a direct concern of the National Farmers Union. It was part of the NFU's original submission in response to the draft Bill under the previous Government. I shall press the Minister to tell the House why the Government have not accepted the NFU's view on the matter.
The amendment deals with compulsory licences, a system which the NFU believes to be inadequate and ineffective. I understand that a compulsory licence has never been granted. The limited grounds on which the controller may grant a compulsory licence as set out in the Bill are inadequate to accommodate the potato sector, for example, which has become extremely diverse in its requirements. The need to supply the market with specific varietal characteristics has become commonplace.
Moreover, the current system provides the applicant with no anonymity. That often deters an individual who is considering taking on the might of a large organisation.
The NFU and the Opposition seek a mechanism within the Bill whereby application for a compulsory licence could be made by way of a corporate approach, which would provide some protection for the individual who was seeking a compulsory licence.
It is imperative not only that the Bill is aligned with European legislation, but that it is updated to reflect the changes that have occurred in this diverse industry since 1964. That is the basis of the amendment. I hope that the Minister will accept it and give us an assurance of the intent behind it.
Mr. Rooker:
It is important that the point is considered in this place, as it will clearly be raised in the other place.
The amendment looks as though it was designed to widen the grounds of public interest, so that public interest is redefined to include the need to supply the market with material offering specific commercial features--for example, potatoes for chipping.
The amendment is unnecessary. Under the Bill, the controller is required to issue a compulsory licence if a variety is not available to the public at reasonable prices or is not widely distributed. The fact that a variety may have particular qualities would be one of the many factors that he would have to take into account in ensuring that the variety was available to the public at appropriate prices and in sufficient quantities to meet the needs of the market.
I accept that such a licence has never been issued under the compulsory system. I am not sure whether anyone has ever tried--and I am not inviting anyone to do so--to question the decisions that have been reached. I do not know whether applications for such licences have been refused, or whether the process of reaching that decision is questioned. There is a system available to anyone who feels aggrieved, whether that is the NFU, any of its members or anyone else.
I see no reason for anonymity. I said earlier that there was a widely accepted degree of openness about this exercise of government and public interest. I would not want to introduce any new aspect behind closed doors.
Mr. Paice:
I thank the Minister, and beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Clause 15 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Mr. Baker:
I beg to move amendment No. 5, in clause 16, page 8, line 34, after subsection (1), insert--
Mr. Rooker:
The hon. Gentleman has got it the wrong way around: the Government would have to seek the approval of Parliament if we were to try to deprive anyone of information that is freely available. The present system seems to work adequately. The information to which the hon. Gentleman refers is freely available and is published both monthly and annually. All the lists are available. In addition, the register may be inspected at the plant variety rights office in Cambridge during normal office hours.
There is nothing closed about the register. Before the Government could close it, we would have to seek Parliament's approval. There is no need to write into the Bill procedures that are already followed willingly.
Mr. Baker:
I hear the Minister's assurances that the register will remain open. My point--which has not been answered fully--is that, unless the provision is written into the Bill, there is nothing to stop a future Government removing the right of access without seeking the approval of Parliament. I explained earlier why I believe the issue of plant breeders' rights will become more sensitive in future, and I hold to that view. It would be convenient to withhold such information in those circumstances. Although there is no problem at present, we may face difficulties in the future. The amendment would ensure that every Government had as much backbone on this issue as the Minister has demonstrated. I shall withdraw the amendment in light of the Minister's personal expression from the Dispatch Box.
Mr. Rooker:
I do not give personal commitments: I make commitments on behalf of the Government. I make that absolutely clear so that there is no misunderstanding in future. Consistent with the policy of open government followed by the previous Government, the information to which the hon. Gentleman refers is openly available. This Government plan to introduce a freedom of information Act: we are not in the business of denying access to information that is already available.
Mr. Baker:
I hope that the Minister will not take it personally--or be insulted on behalf of the Government--if I retain my slight scepticism regarding this matter. He mentioned a freedom of information Act. I understand that it has been drafted, but it was not in the Queen's Speech and the Government have promised to introduce it some time in the future.
The Government have denied me other information by way of written parliamentary answers although it was provided by the previous Conservative Government. Therefore, I am not convinced that the Government are committed to freedom of information--although I hope to be proved wrong in due course and I shall be happy to accept such legislation. However, until such time as we can be sure that the Government are committed to freedom of information, it is right to push them on individual cases to ensure that information is available.
I accept that the Minister is speaking on behalf of the Government, who are committed to ensuring that information is available. However, I seek to ensure that
future Governments will not be able to withdraw that information without seeking the approval of Parliament. My concern remains. I hope that the Minister will not dismiss it, but will perhaps reflect on the matter with his colleagues in another place. I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Clause 16 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clauses 17 to 31 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Mr. Baker:
I beg to move amendment No. 7, in page 14, line 7, leave out from 'Controller' to 'reference' and insert
This amendment attempts to be constructive. Hon. Members have heard about the establishment that has opened in the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for South-East Cornwall (Mr. Breed) and about the importance that is placed upon collections. The Bill refers to a reference collection, but it does not required that it be maintained. It refers simply to the fact that:
Mr. Rooker:
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. The operation of the plant breeders' rights system would not be practical in the absence of a comprehensive reference collection, which includes information about all United Kingdom protected varieties. That is the foundation without which the system would not work, and it must be maintained. It is not a question of "may" or "shall": the system would collapse and be ineffective without that reference collection.
'(1A) Any provision for the keeping of a register made under subsection 1(c) above shall include provision for such a register to be freely open for public inspection.'.
'shall establish and maintain comprehensive'.
"The Controller may establish and maintain reference collections".
The amendment seeks to emphasise the importance that the Liberal Democrats attach to the maintenance of such collections for future reference and possible future use. I hope that the Minister will accept that this is an important point and will respond positively.
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