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Mrs. Taylor: After that speech, I am not sure that we need a debate, anyway. If the hon. Gentleman wanted to object to the establishment of that Committee, he had an opportunity to do so last evening. He chose not to do so, and the House is therefore entitled to note that he missed that opportunity.
Mr. Howarth: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.
Madam Speaker: Order. Points of order come after all statements have been made.
Mrs. Taylor: As I said, the hon. Gentleman could have objected last night. If the Select Committee on Standards and Privileges carries out its work quickly, it may be possible to have early debates on those matters in the House. As for the seniority of Committee members, the Committee is well balanced. Indeed, there are now more Privy Counsellors on the Committee than there were in the last Session of Parliament.
Mr. Alan Williams (Swansea, West): First, I thank the hon. Member for Aldershot (Mr. Howarth) for the courteous and amicable way in which he notified me that he intended to raise this matter.
Will the Leader of the House confirm that if, having been shown documents by that journalist, hon. Members were excluded from Select Committees, we would never have a quorum on any of them? Will she also confirm, and thereby reassure the hon. Gentleman, that I did not seek membership of that Committee, but seem to acquire it as a geriatric endowment? If, as a member of that Committee, I find that I have privy access to any information that is not available to the Committee, I shall certainly inform the Committee of it, and not vote on the ensuing discussion.
Madam Speaker:
I shall, of course, allow the Leader of the House to respond, but we are moving a very long
Mrs. Taylor
indicated dissent.
Mr. Alan Clark (Kensington and Chelsea):
Surely one way out of the right hon. Lady's difficulties, which have been illustrated by my right hon. and hon. Friends, would be to arrange a debate on the Representation of the People Act 1949. That would allow us to discuss the effective disfranchisement of a part of two great cities in the United Kingdom, Glasgow and Liverpool, apparently on the authority of the Prime Minister. If the hon. Members concerned turned up in the House, where would they be expected to sit?
Mrs. Taylor:
The right hon. Gentleman makes strange suggestions. The fact that an hon. Member is suspended pending investigation does not interfere with his ability to represent constituents.
Mr. Dennis Skinner (Bolsover):
Several Conservative Members--in particular, the right hon. and learned Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham (Mr. Hogg)--have called for a debate about hon. Members misleading the House. They wanted a relatively short debate. Will my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House bear it in mind that the debate would have to be a lot longer than that if we included all the ex-Tory Ministers who misled the House?
I am thinking of the ex-Home Secretary, who finished up in court nine times--a recidivist--because he misled the House so often. I am thinking of the previous Prime Minister, who misled the House when he said that his Government would get rid of the beef ban after Florence last November, and failed. I am thinking of all the rest of them who have been jumping up and down, who lined their pockets with consultancies. We could have a very long debate about that matter, and I encourage them all to turn up for it, so that we can examine all their records.
Mrs. Taylor:
I have listened carefully to what my hon. Friend says. I have a difficulty, because, if I had to provide time for a debate of the length that he requests, I might not be able, even in the next few weeks, to announce when the summer recess will be.
Mrs. Theresa May (Maidenhead):
Bearing in mind the comment by the Prime Minister to the House yesterday that hon. Members have freedom of speech, provided that it is within the rules of their parliamentary party; in the light of the standing order endorsed by the parliamentary Labour party before the last election that guaranteed hon. Members freedom of speech; in the light of the comments made by the right hon. Member for Swansea, West (Mr. Williams) in a debate in the House about his concerns that the Secretary of State for Wales had been reported as saying that disciplinary proceedings would be taken against any Member who spoke against devolution; and in the light of the admonition given by the Secretary of State for Wales to the right hon. Member for Swansea, West from the Dispatch Box at the end of that debate, does the right hon. Lady agree that it is urgent for us to have a debate in the House, not only on freedom of speech
Mrs. Taylor:
That takes the prize for the cheek of the day. I do not believe that Labour Members are trying to discuss internal affairs at the Dispatch Box or anywhere else. My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister made it clear that there is no need for a debate, and I have nothing further to add.
Mr. John Bercow (Buckingham):
Can the right hon. Lady, on reflection, confirm that the Prime Minister will make a statement to the House next week explaining--not least for the benefit of new Members such as myself--how it was possible for him to investigate the dispute between the Secretary of State for Wales and the hon. Member for Blaenau Gwent (Mr. Smith), without having spoken to the hon. Member for Blaenau Gwent?
Mrs. Taylor:
My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister explained that hon. Members are free to speak their minds. That is perfectly straightforward.
Sir Patrick Cormack (South Staffordshire):
I thank the right hon. Lady for her kind opening words.
In view of the fact that Monday's and Tuesday's business is important but not desperately urgent, will she bear it in mind that it is desperately urgent for us to clarify a matter of extreme constitutional importance? Can we therefore arrange, at the very least, for the Secretary of State for Wales to give a personal statement?
The fact is that yesterday the Prime Minister said, in good faith, that he believed that no one had told an untruth. However, last night the hon. Member for Blaenau Gwent (Mr. Smith)--whose integrity is not in dispute--made it quite plain that he did not agree with that position. The situation must be clarified. Will the right hon. Lady allow that to occur?
Mrs. Taylor:
I repeat my welcome to the hon. Gentleman. However, I am sorry that, at his first appearance at the Dispatch Box for business questions, I cannot agree with one word he said. There are no constitutional implications, and there is no need for a personal statement. For the convenience of Opposition Front-Bench Members, I shall ensure that they receive a copy of the letter that my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister sent to the Leader of the Opposition today.
Several hon. Members rose--
Madam Speaker:
Thank you. We shall now move on.
Hon. Members:
On a point of order, Madam Speaker.
Madam Speaker:
Order. I instruct hon. Members that they must make points of order and not points of frustration. Several hon. Members who were not called during business questions are seeking to catch my eye. I stress that they must raise proper points of order.
Mr. Douglas Hogg (Sleaford and North Hykeham):
On a point of order, Madam Speaker. I promise you that I am not one whit frustrated, and I seek your guidance. If it were true that an hon. Member had been threatened with being prevented from speaking his mind and threatened with expulsion from the parliamentary party, would such a threat--if made--constitute a contempt of Parliament?
Madam Speaker:
The right hon. and learned Gentleman asks a hypothetical question. If he touches upon a matter of privilege, he must write to me: I shall not have an exchange across the Floor of the House on that matter. He is a long-standing Member of Parliament, so he will know that I do not deal in hypothetical answers.
Mr. Gerald Howarth (Aldershot):
On a point of order, Madam Speaker. The Leader of the House asked why I did not object to the formation of the Standards and Privileges Committee last night. I did not object because the motion was not debatable. [Interruption.]
Hon. Members:
This is not a point of order.
4.5 pm
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