House of Commons
Tuesday 8 July 1997
The House met at half-past Two o'clock
PRAYERS
[Madam Speaker in the Chair]
PRIVATE BUSINESS
King's College London Bill [Lords] (By Order)
Order for Third Reading read.
To be read the Third time on Tuesday 15 July.
Order for Second Reading read.
To be read a Second time on Tuesday 15 July.
Hong Kong
1. Mr. Ben Chapman: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will make a statement on the handover of Hong Kong, and on the current state of British relations with China. [5724]
3. Mr. Waterson:
To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will make a statement on Sino-British relations. [5728]
4. Mr. Bennett:
To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will make an assessment of the United Kingdom's future relations with China following the handover of Hong Kong. [5729]
The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Mr. Derek Fatchett):
I apologise for the absence of my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary, who is attending the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation summit in Madrid.
As my right hon. Friend told the Chinese Foreign Minister in Hong Kong, Britain and China have substantial common interests. We aim to build a new, broad and forward-looking relationship. We want Hong Kong to be a bridge not a barrier between us. That will depend on China honouring its commitments in the joint declaration.
Mr. Chapman:
I thank my hon. Friend for that reply. Does he agree that, on present trends, China has the potential to be the world's biggest economic power early in the next millennium? Does he also agree that it is already a growing and major market for our goods and services? Does he further agree that it is enormously
Mr. Fatchett:
My hon. Friend had a distinguished career as a diplomat before he came to the House and has a real understanding of the situation in China. We are looking forward to a new, constructive relationship with China and are keen to engage with it on a range of political, trade and human rights issues. That is the best way to secure the future of Hong Kong. We are deeply committed to ensuring that we carry out our responsibilities under the joint declaration.
Mr. Waterson:
Can the hon. Gentleman explain the rationale behind the last minute volte-face, which resulted in British representatives being permitted after all to attend the swearing in of the new provisional Legislative Council? How can that be rationalised with the view--if it is still the Government's view--that that body is illegal?
Mr. Fatchett:
I am surprised that the hon. Gentleman raised that issue. The Government's policy was that no Ministers would attend the swearing in ceremony for the provisional legislature. It has always been our understanding that there will be a consensus on Hong Kong policy. We were deeply disappointed that three senior representatives of the Conservative party attended the swearing in ceremony. When the new shadow Foreign Secretary has the opportunity to come to the Dispatch Box, I hope that he will condemn those Conservatives who went against the Government's policy.
Mr. Bennett:
I do not suppose that my hon. Friend can tell me the CO 2 emissions for China and Hong Kong and the likely emissions over the next 10 or 15 years. Does he agree, however, that they will make a significant contribution to global warming and that it is important that we draw China into the worldwide agreements that are beginning to emerge in respect of protecting the environment for us all?
Mr. Fatchett:
As my hon. Friend knows, it is difficult to predict precisely the CO 2 emissions from China or any other country, but my hon. Friend is right to say that they are likely to be significant in the coming years simply because of the size and the growth of the Chinese economy. A further reason to engage China on a range of issues is that the environment is as important to the Chinese as it is to us. We have been working with the Chinese on a number of environment projects, and we wish to extend that work in future.
Sir Patrick Cormack:
Does the hon. Gentleman accept that there should be a continuing role for the House, and perhaps for the other place, in monitoring developments in Hong Kong during the rest of the 50-year period?
Mr. Fatchett:
I accept the thrust of the hon. Gentleman's question. There will indeed be great pressure
Mr. Campbell-Savours:
Has my hon. Friend seen the reports in the Sunday newspapers of actions by the noble Lord Howe, which I support, to undermine the negotiating position of Christopher Patten as Governor of Hong Kong? Can we be sure that there will be a full inquiry into those allegations as many of us would like to know what really happened during that period?
Mr. Fatchett:
My advice to my hon. Friend is to allow the Conservatives yet again to have their internal divisions in public. I enjoy watching those internal divisions. It is important to look to the future, and in that context we must ensure that the joint declaration is honoured and that we and the Chinese carry out our commitments under the joint declaration. That is the best way to ensure the long-term future and prosperity of the people of Hong Kong.
2. Mrs. Ann Winterton:
To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will make a statement on the future of the Commonwealth. [5727]
The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Mr. Tony Lloyd):
The Commonwealth has an increasingly important role to play in the modern world. The shared values of its members, reflected in the Harare declaration, are an important force in strengthening democracy and prosperity around the globe. We will take this agenda forward at the Commonwealth Heads of Government meeting in Edinburgh in October.
Mrs. Winterton:
History will judge the Commonwealth as bringing great benefit to the emerging nations. Does the Minister accept that it needs new vigour and a new sense of purpose if it is to continue into the new millennium to be an effective alternative to the expensive, inefficient and power-hungry United Nations?
Mr. Lloyd:
I would not pretend for a second to share any of the hon. Lady's sentiments in respect of the United Nations. We applaud the work of the United Nations in many parts of the world. However, there is no conflict between our view of the Commonwealth as an important institution in terms of projecting Britain's own values and making sure that the values that we share with other members of the Commonwealth are appreciated throughout the world. My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary made it clear in his recent mission statement that the role of the Commonwealth is central to our foreign policy objectives and our shared values in terms of democracy, good government, anti-corruption and building a global sense of values through the Harare declaration to which all Commonwealth nations must adhere.
Mrs. Dunwoody:
My hon. Friend will be aware that Labour Members are delighted with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State's strong commitment to the Commonwealth. He will have noticed that the previous
Mr. Lloyd:
My hon. Friend makes a very important point. We of course welcomed that report, and we shall take its conclusions very seriously. We also share the view that, as I said, the Commonwealth is central to this Government's purposes. It is also central, though, in ensuring that the values that we espouse and those that we espouse in common with our Commonwealth partners are an example not only to the Commonwealth but to the whole world.
Mr. Menzies Campbell:
May I commend in his absence the recent robust remarks by the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs in relation to Nigeria? Does the Minister remember that, in 1961, when South Africa left the Commonwealth, it was on the verge of expulsion for its persistent and unrepentant flouting of Commonwealth values? If the present regime in Nigeria persists in its denial of human rights and democracy, will the Government give serious consideration to supporting a policy of expulsion of Nigeria from the Commonwealth?
Mr. Lloyd:
As the hon. and learned Gentleman will know, the Commonwealth ministerial action group will meet at the end of the week. On its agenda, among other things, will be the future of Nigeria in the Commonwealth, and of course the future of its suspension. I think that he will understand if I do not go further than that today except simply to say that we shall be working actively with our Commonwealth partners to see what further action can be taken to bring pressure to bear on the Nigerians so that they recognise that their behaviour is despicable and that it is time they began to reform.
Mr. Pike:
As both Pakistan and India very much value their membership of the Commonwealth, does my hon. Friend believe that this year, given that it is the 50th anniversary of their independence and the 50th year of the Kashmir problem, the Commonwealth could have a role in trying to help resolve that problem?
Mr. Lloyd:
As we have made very clear, the Government are available to act to bring about a resolution of that very long-enduring conflict. The major parties of the conflict are not only the people of Kashmir, who are undoubtedly the victims, but the Governments of India and Pakistan. The British Government, and indeed the Commonwealth, can operate only within a framework established by those two nations.
Mr. Blunt:
Given the events in Kenya reported in today's press, which seem to be in complete disregard of the Harare declaration, what steps are the Government taking to put pressure on the Government of President Arap Moi? Given the division between the Foreign Office and the Department of International Development, would such pressure include the potential suspension of aid?
Mr. Lloyd:
I met President Moi and, indeed, Opposition figures when I was in Kenya just over a week
We have made it clear that we deplore the violence and suggestions that the authorities may have used excessive force in their attempts to restrain demonstration. Within such terms, it is clear that the pressure that we are seeking to place is to ensure that the Kenyan people are sovereign in the process. Although I cannot answer for my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for International Development, I am sure that she will take note of the hon. Gentleman's comments.
Mr. Howard:
Further to the question by my hon. Friend the Member for Reigate (Mr. Blunt), in the light of the distressing scenes of violence in Kenya, what scope does the Minister think there is for representations by the Government, in co-operation with other Commonwealth Governments, to the Kenyan Government?
Mr. Lloyd:
We have already made representations to the Kenyan Government and said that we expect them to play their part in ensuring that the run-up between now and the election later this year--or perhaps early next year--must be conducted without violence and in a way that allows the Kenyan people to make a decision. Those representations are firmly established with the Kenyan Government. We shall of course be seeking to work with our close allies in the Commonwealth and elsewhere to ensure that acceptance of the Harare principle is central to the Kenyan Government's actions. I simply repeat that we are in the end seeking to ensure that the Kenyan people have the right to choose the Government of Kenya.
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