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Mr. Anthony Steen (Totnes): Will my hon. Friend give way?
Mr. Gill: I am on my peroration now; I am so sorry.
Mr. Bob Blizzard (Waveney): I thank the hon. Member for Banff and Buchan (Mr. Salmond) for providing this opportunity to debate quota hopping, which is a major issue in Lowestoft, in my constituency. Fishermen undoubtedly want those lost quotas returned and feel that they have suffered from the effects of multi-annual guidance programme IV before it has even
been introduced. There is also no doubt that, during the general election, fishermen counted on recovery of those quotas to enable them to deal with forthcomingfishing reductions. One can therefore understand the disappointment that they must feel.
All hon. Members realise that the problem facing the Government is how to get the quotas back. As has already been said, one cannot confiscate something that has been bought legally. We can try to buy the quotas back, but other countries will not sell them, and that is the significant point. Of all European Union member states, only the United Kingdom has a serious problem with quota hopping. I asked fishermen in Lowestoft, "Can't you retaliate and hop on other people's quotas?" They replied, "You just try. You can't--they're not for sale." That is the problem. We should be asking how we got into that situation.
There was no support for a protocol in the lead-up to Amsterdam. I believe that both the previous and the current Governments had either to make the best of a bad situation or to block the intergovernmental conference, thereby probably quitting the European Union altogether. I know many fishermen who would like to leave the EU, but that will not happen, because, as we know, it would be a complete disaster for most other UK industries.
I am sure that most of my hon. Friends in the Scottish National party would accept those consequences of leaving the EU. Let us suspend disbelief for a moment and imagine that, on 1 May 1997, the Scottish nationalists swept to power in Scotland and achieved their aim of independence in Europe. I am sure that, at the IGC, they would not have wished to leave the EU because of the fishing issue.
Mr. Salmond:
There is a difference between blocking an intergovernmental conference and leaving the European Union. I draw the hon. Gentleman's attention to the number of times that the Spanish Government have blocked intergovernmental conferences or Council of Europe meetings to gain advantage for their fishing industry. Does he appreciate the distinction?
Mr. Blizzard:
There may be a distinction. I believe, however, that--because of the history of the previous Government's attitude to Europe and the almost total breakdown in our relationship with our European partners--the type of obstruction that was considered would have had serious consequences for our membership of the EU and for progress in other policy spheres. The new Government have made the best of the situation in which they found themselves. Statements have been made on this subject, and I hope that more fish will be landed in British ports and that more jobs will be available on those boats for British fishermen.
Mr. Steen:
As I am the vice-chairman of the all-party group on fisheries, and have the second largest port in England and Wales in my constituency, may I ask the hon. Gentleman a question? Is he aware that my fishermen say that, despite Amsterdam, no more fish will be landed in British ports than are currently landed? They say also that those landed fish will not go into British fish markets
Mr. Blizzard:
In Lowestoft, there is a trawler--which is a Lowestoft trawler with a Lowestoft company--that, purely and simply, is a quota hopper. It does not land any fish in the port of Lowestoft, although it is registered there. Proper enforcement of the agreement reached in those letters will require that that ship lands a significant proportion of its catch in the United Kingdom. It therefore seems reasonable to have every hope that the ship will land its catch either in the port of Lowestoft or in another UK port. The ship is fishing the same fishing fields off Lowestoft that it fished before it became a quota hopper.
Lowestoft fishermen also want proper regulation of quota hoppers and for quota hoppers to be as severely inspected as the British fleet. The Government have said that they will achieve that objective, and they have started to do so, as I am sure fishermen will appreciate.
We must also achieve an agreement between scientists and fishermen on what stocks are in the sea. I speak to scientists, who tell me one thing, and to fishermen, who tell me something else. Both groups are adamant that they are right, but they cannot both be right. I am pleased, however, that we have made some progress in Lowestoft in getting the two sides together and finding a means by which they can agree what can safely be caught to sustain stocks.
I agree with other hon. Members that there is a fundamental contradiction between the principles of the single market and the entire basis of the common fisheries policy, which is fixing member states' allocations. The contradiction should have been dealt with at the beginning, when the common fisheries policy was drawn up, but it was not. Why was the contradiction not discovered then? It should also have been dealt with in the most recent review of the common fisheries policy, but it was not. The previous Government have told us nothing about what happened.
We must examine those issues in preparing for the next review of the common fisheries policy, when, I think all hon. Members will agree, there will have to be radical reform. It is painfully obvious that the common fisheries policy has not worked, because it has not conserved fish. People in my constituency, like people across the UK, become very angry when they see the spectacle of fishermen throwing back dead fish, which they have to do if they are not to become criminals in their daily work. The public are outraged about such waste.
Mr. David Curry (Skipton and Ripon):
I congratulate the hon. Member for Ayr (Mrs. Osborne) on her maiden speech. It is good that she chose to make it on the subject
I have very pleasant memories of Ayr. My wife and I stayed in a bed and breakfast there; when the landlady asked whether I wanted one egg or two--
Mrs. Margaret Ewing (Moray):
This is irrelevant.
Mr. Curry:
I am merely following the courtesies of the House, as I am sure the hon. Lady understands. I said that I would have two eggs, and my wife said that she would have the same, but the landlady said that that was only for gentlemen.
I hope that the Parliamentary Secretary and I will find some common ground. We have frequently faced each other across the Dispatch Box and often found ourselves in agreement. He will find, as my hon. Friend the Member for Banbury (Mr. Baldry) and I found, that dealing with issues in practice is a great deal less easy than speculating on how they might be dealt with in theory.
Fishing is a difficult industry and a difficult environment. My concern is that the Government are seeking to tackle the problem of quota hopping with measures that could have little effect in practice and could well be unsustainable in law. My fear is that licence conditions will simply not do the trick--we know, because we tried them. That is the history of the Merchant Shipping Act 1988 and the Factortame case, to which reference has already been made.
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