| Previous Section | Index | Home Page |
Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. I have already had to interrupt the hon. Gentleman once and he has been here
long enough to know that this is a debate about the information society. The House has understood what is meant by that term in the context of the debate. If the hon. Gentleman wishes to pursue other matters, he knows that there are plenty of other occasions on which to do so, but those matters do not fall naturally within the remit of today's debate.
Mr. Bruce: I take your guidance, Mr. Deputy Speaker, and I have finished my remarks on the subject. As you will know, I was challenged on the issue via what was virtually a point of order. I am happy to leave other allegations until I have received a reply from the Prime Minister about whether he will list the donators.
I felt that in this important debate, when we had an opportunity to talk about the information society, I should devote part of my speech to an element of one of the working parties within the European Informatics Market group, which will be reporting to the Government and the European Community. The important subject of regulations on Internet content have already been raised. The regulations are relevant to the debate. The secretary of the working party, David Harrington--the secretary general of the Telecommunications Managers Association--has decided that he will not use paper. He will insist that all the minutes and the draft reports are produced electronically and put onto the Internet. The working party is currently under the chairmanship of Baroness Dean. She is also chairman of the Independent Committee for the Supervision of Standards of Telephone Information Services--ICSTIS.
I am grateful to my researcher, whom I asked to go into the Internet and obtain information about the types of Internet content regulation. The House will have to examine regulation of the Internet and decide where it is going. Although hon. Members may not be interested in the technology, many are interested in what is happening on the Internet and whether the content is harmful. There are 50 million-plus users of the Internet and the world is worried about regulation of illegal and harmful content and protecting children from it.
It is interesting to try to define what people are worried about. Clearly, certain material is illegal and its dissemination is punishable by the criminal law and outlawed for use by all sections of society, regardless of age and the medium used. What is illegal off-line is illegal on-line. Illegal content includes material related to paedophilia, trafficking in human beings, deviant pornography, racism, extremism, terrorism and fraud. Much work has already been done in the European Parliament and it has produced some interesting reports.
Other material is not illegal, but it is harmful to the development of children. It is sometimes available to adult consumers. One has to consider how to restrict access to adults. We have considered regulation at the point of origin and at the point of access. It has been said that regulation at the point of origin will not work. The Internet is internationally dispersed and it is not realistic or possible, and perhaps not desirable, to exercise control over content at the point of origin. Control can be applied at the point of access, but that does not imply that efforts should not be made to trace illegal content to its source as well as to its customers.
Technical solutions that could allow effective control over content at the point of access are not yet fully effective or universally available. Why are technical
solutions so difficult and not fully effective? There are news and ratings systems on the Internet, but one gets into great problems because the news often deals with violent events and adult-oriented subjects, and news stories often end up verboten in the same way as pornography is.
Microsoft tried to edit out some material through one of its systems, but found it difficult to do so. The public nature of the Internet means that if one channel is blocked, users will find another route by which to disseminate information. The report to Members of the European Parliament said:
It is not impossible to provide protections. For instance, almost every country in the world has already signed up to the convention on the rights of the child. By doing so, they will ensure that harmful information on the Internet will be caught. Funnily enough, I believe that the only two countries that have not signed the convention are the United States--I hope that its other laws will cover the problem--and Somalia. It is extremely important that we consider that issue.
Mrs. Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham):
The debate was initiated by the Government. I believe that many observers with an interest in technology and the spread of information in society will be disappointed at the content--or lack of it--in the Government's contribution to the debate.
It is sad that the colleague of the Minister for Science, Energy and Industry, the Minister for Competition and Consumer Affairs, is not on the Front Bench, because I am sure he would have noted how the debate has been misrepresented. It has been not an information debate, but a lack of information debate.
I look to the Minister for Small Firms, Trade and Industry, for whom I have a great deal of respect, to redress the problem. I hope that she will present a serious, well-structured response to the questions that I shall ask and those asked by my hon. Friends the Members for Sevenoaks (Mr. Fallon), for South Dorset (Mr. Bruce) and for Esher and Walton (Mr. Taylor).
Opening the debate, the Minister for Science, Energy and Industry spoke for more than 40 minutes. He told us that he started his life on the shelf; I very much hope that
he does not end his life there. We were given a beautifully eloquent guided tour of modern technology, but we heard nothing of what the Government intend to do. The Minister's speech was quite rightly put a little in the shade by the offering from my hon. Friend the Member for Esher and Walton. As those on the Government Benches have rightly acknowledged, he has a legendary reputation as one of the finest Members to hold the position of Minister for Science and Technology the House has ever seen.
Mr. Battle:
Yes, and the Government of which the hon. Lady was a member sacked him.
Mrs. Gillan:
My hon. Friend is greatly respected by the scientific and business community. He championed that community with great knowledge and to great acclaim. I advise the Minister to keep his remarks to himself and to read my hon. Friend's speeches.
The Minister's performance at a science and technology meeting upstairs yesterday was a bitter disappointment not just to me, but to many of the audience who were summoned by him. All they heard were enthusiastic ramblings, personal anecdotes and tales from Leeds. If the Minister wants to gain any respect, he will need to judge his words more carefully in the future.
I do not have respect for the Minister because at the start of the debate I asked for a reply to my written question. I accepted his apology and took it in the spirit in which it was offered. I was led to understand that he had signed a substantive answer to my question on the information society. That answer has not reached me here, and I have been either in the Chamber or within 100 yds of it all morning. The Minister has not brought that substantive answer to the House. I am happy to give way to him, because I took his apology in the spirit in which it was offered.
Mr. Battle:
I am grateful to the hon. Lady for giving me the opportunity to read out the answer to her question, which appears on the Order Paper for 11 July, which I understand is still regarded as today. The question asks: "what is her"--my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade and Secretary of State for Trade and Industry's--
"the particular nature of the Internet is such that censorship is virtually impossible. If a message is blocked from passing through one channel, it can get through by another. It is, furthermore, vital to respect freedom of expression, even if this leads to repugnant extremes."
Furthermore, the world is worried about children first and foremost, as is evidenced by the recent comments made by President Clinton. He said last week:
"With the right technology and rating systems, we can help ensure that our children don't end up in the red-light districts of cyberspace."
We have to be extremely careful about that, but it is important to understand that existing law already covers so much of what appears on the Internet. The biggest problem is one of jurisdiction--the international electronic medium is physically difficult to police.
"Department's definition of the Information Society."
The answer is:
"The Information Society is a concept encompassing the converging information technology, electronics and communications industries, their products and services and the infrastructure of the connecting networks. It involves the ability electronically to access very large quantities of information and entertainment on demand, to interact with and manipulate large quantities of data, to transact remotely and to communicate while on the move. It is a society where interactions and events are no longer determined by geographical position or physical separation. It will have a major impact on the economic and social fabric of our lives, and should be developed to create opportunities and benefits for all citizens."
I hope that that is a helpful start for the hon. Lady.
| Next Section
| Index | Home Page |