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Ms Rachel Squire (Dunfermline, West) indicated dissent.
Mrs. Browning: The hon. Lady fails to realise that although equality sounds like a good, fair word--she is nodding--it has been demonstrated over the years that when equality becomes the pervasive requirement, as it clearly is for the Government, that entails looking beyond the individual child's ability. All too often, the result is a loss of opportunity for the individual child. When the individual child loses opportunity, a brake is put on standards, because those children who are able to go forward, as many are, fail to do so.
The hon. Lady is nodding. Let me give her an example from the White Paper. The Government say that they want to promote specialist schools. Whatever subject--sport, music, ballet, languages--such a school specialises in, one would imagine that in order to raise standards in that discipline, there would need to be some criteria at the point at which the child enters the school, in order for the pursuit of excellence to be realised when the child leaves the school.
Although the Government say that that is what they want, the White Paper states that, on entering a school, a child can be interviewed only on religious grounds. Suppose a specialist school for the arts--ballet and music, perhaps--were set up. Are we to believe--I am willing to be corrected by the Minister, if he has further information--the admission of children to such a school will be focused on
egalitarian objectives? In other words, any child who wants to be a ballerina or tennis star can come to a specialist school, but those children cannot be interviewed at the age of 11 except to find out what their religion is.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education and Employment (Ms Estelle Morris):
That is silly.
Mrs. Browning:
No, it is not silly. Let us hear what the admissions criteria will be for specialist schools. That is what it comes down to.
The White Paper is good on soft language, but there is a paucity of detail in it. The Government have the opportunity to spell out the detail to the House this morning. They have written the White Paper and published it; now let us have some detail.
Ms Hodge:
I am genuinely shocked by what the hon. Lady has just said, and by her understanding of equality. I do not see anywhere in the White Paper or in what Ministers have said anything that suggests that equality means that every child will achieve the same. What we want, and what the Government are determined to achieve, is equality of opportunity, which the previous Government failed to achieved. That has left us with one of the worst educational records as a nation, especially among our OECD comparatives.
Mrs. Browning:
With the indulgence of the House, I shall run the hon. Lady through my concern about admissions policy and the concept of equality to which the Government are determined to adhere.
The Government say in the White Paper that they will establish specialist schools in disciplines such as sport, ballet and languages, yet, in order to achieve excellence and opportunity for young people, they propose to curtail the opportunity for the schools to interview children as to the appropriateness of their admission into such a school. The White Paper states that children can be interviewed for admission only to discuss their religious affiliation. How will the Government raise standards in specialist schools if there are to be no admissions criteria?
Hon. Members are nodding behind the Minister for School Standards. I hope that he will clarify the matter before the debate is over. If there is to be no admissions policy to identify the potential tennis stars and prima ballerinas of the next generation, how will it be possible to raise standards, and how can specialist schools be successful? I hope that one of the Ministers will explain when winding up the debate.
We hear at national level about the standards and effectiveness unit. That has a huge remit to intervene throughout the education service. It is accountable to the Secretary of State. In the education service, it will develop an omnipresence, given that it will lead the "drive for school improvement", direct
The main problem with the centralised structure that the Government want to create will be its power and influence over what goes on in our schools. It will give educationalists and the followers of the latest theories and fads--as though we have not had enough of them--the opportunity to dream up their ideas in academic ivory towers. They will have the full support of the Department behind them.
It has been demonstrated that the White Paper is strong on warm words and overfills its quota of rhetoric. It is somewhat vague, however, and we are all anxious to hear the missing detail. I hope that Ministers will give us more detail this morning. To use the old cliche, the devil is in the detail, and the White Paper is positively satanic, given the number of devils lurking in the pages.
The White Paper dodges the fate of grammar schools; we want to hear what that is to be. It skirts over the Government's plans for grant-maintained schools. It reiterates the Government's pledge to maximum class sizes of 30 for five, six and seven-year-olds.
As the Minister said, the presumption is that the money from the soon-to-be-abolished assisted places scheme will be enough to pay for that pledge, but there is a fundamental dishonesty in that. As we have discussed in previous debates, the money from assisted places will not be enough to reduce class sizes. We have been saying that for a long time, and we have recently been joined by the Minister for Education and Industry, Scottish Office.
The Government should come clean and say whether they still believe that they will be able to deliver that commitment with assisted places money. If there is to be additional money from elsewhere, or if it is a matter not of funding, but of filling up the empty places in other schools, they should tell us. It is important that the point is clarified.
Mr. Byers:
I am content to give that clarification. It is worth reminding hon. Members that the class size issue in Scotland is quite different from that in England and Wales. In Scotland, it is a conditions of service issue for individual teachers and is dealt with in that way. I can confirm our commitment to reducing class sizes for five, six and seven-year-olds and confirm that the money will be available as a result of the phasing out of the assisted places scheme.
A total of £100 million will have accrued by the turn of the century. Thereafter, there will be annual savings in excess of £100 million a year. The two independent surveys examining the costs of abolition of the assisted places scheme and reducing class sizes both come up with an annual figure of £65 million in terms of costs, so there is ample finance to honour our class size pledge. We will reduce class sizes for every five, six and seven-year-old.
Mrs. Browning:
I am grateful to the Minister for stating that he still believes that he is on course to deliver that promise. I shall write to him for further clarification, unless he wishes to reply this morning. Many hon. Members represent large rural constituencies. It is common in many rural primary schools for teachers to teach across an age range, especially in the lower ages. What will happen to a reception class of 40 five and six-year-olds in a village school? If that class is to be
Even if the Government intend to provide an extra class and an extra teacher in such circumstances, I know that many village primary schools--which are old Victorian schools situated on very small campuses--could not accommodate an additional classroom if they wanted to. Will the Minister confirm his intentions? Will there be extra classrooms and teachers or will parents have to send their children away from their villages to schools elsewhere?
Mr. Byers:
The hon. Lady has moved from the funding issue--where there is no problem--to wider issues of admissions policies and school organisation. She has touched on several practical questions that I have raised within the Department.
"the implementation of the literacy and numeracy strategies",
and ensure that
"the Government's policy of zero tolerance of underperformance is applied to schools".
It will also implement and run the proposed 25 education action zones.
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