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Ms Roseanna Cunningham (Perth): I am glad that the Secretary of State has finally got round to dealing with that. The previous Government proposed to reduce the limit to three months; but, unlike the previous
Government, the present Government--they are called new Labour, but perhaps they ought to be called new Tory--will include the backdating of council tax benefits and housing benefits in their proposal, a step that the previous Government would not take. I assume that they knew, as everyone else knows, that the limit for rent arrears and council tax arrears would not be cut to a month. How on earth will the Secretary of State explain to people who are caught in that trap how the Government can claim to be caring for them, when in fact they are stealing from them?
Ms Harman: We want to ensure that the system is not run on the basis of getting things wrong and then backdating to sort them out. We want to ensure that the system gets it right first time, and that there is a common backdating procedure for all claims. I am sure that the hon. Lady welcomes the fact that we did not proceed with the extension of housing benefit restrictions relating to single-room rent to those aged between 25 and 59. We have said that we shall keep within the Department's spending totals for the next two years. The proposal to which I referred is one of the measures that contributed to our being able not to extend those restrictions.
Ms Cunningham: The point is that, by refusing the backdating, the Government will put people whose rent or council tax arrears have built up into an appalling position. With respect, nothing has been said about how that will be dealt with in practice when it happens--as it will.
Ms Harman: The change will not come into force for some time. When it does, we shall be working to ensure that we get it right, and that we do not run the system on the basis of backdating.
We shall also complete the alignment of child benefit rates for lone parents with those for two-parent families, remove the unequal treatment of women who receive statutory maternity pay and those who receive maternity allowance when they subsequently claim benefit because of illness, and tidy up the national insurance rules in a number of areas.
Audrey Wise:
Perhaps my right hon. Friend would care to explain more fully the reasoning behind clause 68, which I imagine is encompassed by her statement, which aligns child benefit payments for one-parent and two-parent families. Will she forgive me if I think that that is more in the nature of a cut for lone parents than anything else?
Ms Harman:
The manifesto on which my hon. Friend and I were both elected was clear. It said that our approach would be to ensure opportunities for lone parents to work, and to ensure that they would be much better off than they and their children could ever be on benefit. In our first Budget, we have backed that manifesto commitment with a £200 million programme of opportunities for lone mothers. The research shows that, on average, lone mothers and their children are likely to be £50 a week better off in work than they are on benefit. Therefore, we have said that the way in which we shall proceed is through welfare to work and that we shall invest to provide lone mothers with opportunities, to ensure that they can do what they want to do.
It is important that we listen to what is being said by Gingerbread and the National Council for One Parent Families. Before the election and since our Budget and all these announcements, lone mothers have said that they want to move off benefits and into work, and that they want the opportunities that they have been denied for so long. They welcome our approach, which is to invest in opportunities and in child care, so that they do not have to struggle with living on benefit, but can have the same opportunities as everyone else.
Mr. Alasdair Morgan (Galloway and Upper Nithsdale):
Does the right hon. Lady agree that her proposition is based on the premise that everything in the garden will be perfect? If the system does not get it wrong, it does not matter that people can claim only up to one month after a mistake, or that we are reducing benefits for single parents, because they are all going to have jobs. Does the Minister not realise that everything in the garden will not be fine, even after five or 10 years of new Labour, and that we need to cater for the situation where the Government or the system get it wrong?
Ms Harman:
We are making the choices based on what people are saying to us about how they want the system to work. Lone mothers want to be in work, with in-work benefits. They do not want to depend fully on income support. Therefore, they support our choice of investment. They understand that we have said that we shall keep within the departmental spending totals for the next two years. They know that we are making choices and that the choice we have made is to invest in opportunities for lone mothers to go out to work, just as married women do. They back that approach. That is what lone mothers say to me in my constituency--they want to be better off than they can ever be on benefit and they want to support themselves and their children.
Therefore, we are taking a particular approach towards changing the system, which is not about distributing small amounts of money to an ever-growing number of people--the one in five households that have no one in work and are therefore supported by the other four households, living on low income and benefits, with a sense of hopelessness and despair. We have made a choice. We have set about the problem in our first Budget. Choices have had to be made, but we are investing to provide opportunities, and that is what those people--who, unlike us, are trapped on benefits--want. They want us to invest public money, to provide them with opportunities.
Mr. Oliver Letwin (West Dorset)
rose--
Ms Harman:
I have given way to the hon. Lady and the hon. Gentleman, so I will conclude my comments. Perhaps they can catch Mr. Deputy Speaker's eye as the debate proceeds.
Mr. Iain Duncan Smith (Chingford and Woodford Green):
This Bill is of great interest to the whole House, but perhaps its antecedents should be spoken about a little today. In welcoming the speech of the Secretary of State for Social Security and Minister for Women, I want to pick up on two or three points that she made.
The Minister for Welfare Reform (Mr. Frank Field):
The Conservatives are not opposed to the Bill, then?
Mr. Duncan Smith:
That is correct.
The Secretary of State talked about steps being taken to demonstrate a radical new approach to welfare. I agree, except on the point as to who actually raised the matter. The point about the streamlining and speeding up of appeals is well taken and well made. I do not think that any hon. Member would want to differ with it--[Interruption.] The Scottish nationalists can speak for themselves. I speak for the Conservative party. Again, her comments on administration changes were well made and well taken, but I refer her to the Green Paper. Its foreword, written by her predecessor, states:
When I examined the Bill when it first came out a week and a half or so ago, I thought for a moment, looking at the size of it and the number of clauses, that the Minister for Welfare Reform had sat with a wet towel around his head since the election, working out his great welfare reforms--that is what we were told that his great role was going to be. However, when I got into the Bill, it was a case of deja vu. I began to see more and more things that we had already discussed before the election.
When I examined the 1997 Green Paper to which I have referred and re-read the Bill, I realised that this debate would be about the ground work and the pre-legislation work of my predecessor, my right hon. Friend the Member for Hitchin and Harpenden (Mr. Lilley). In many ways, the Bill should be touted as the "Peter Lilley memorial Bill" because, in essence, that is what it is all about. The Secretary of State is remembering her predecessor in a most generous way. She is rather like the man who started shaving with an electric razor and liked it so much that he bought the company. She has had the great idea of swallowing hook, line and sinker a Bill that is sitting ready to go and then assuming ownership of it.
This reform package raises a number of issues. The key issue that underscores the whole Bill is the change programme. The big question is not just who owns the Bill, but whether the Secretary of State and the Government now fully support the change programme announced by my right hon. Friend, her predecessor, when he set in train the Green Paper and all the other aspects of change, many of which seem to flow through the Bill, although many others are still outstanding. Perhaps I could give the Secretary of State the opportunity to say that she agrees with the change programme as announced. If she wants to make that announcement now, perhaps she will do so. No? She does not want to intervene to make that clear.
Perhaps it is not surprising that the Secretary of State does not want to say that that is the case. After all, the change programme was designed to get 25 per cent. efficiency savings from the annual budget and my right hon. Friend the Member for Hitchin and Harpenden made it clear that
Perhaps I can put it another way. If the Secretary of State is not prepared to say that she agrees with that statement, and I am keen that she should make a statement about this, does she perhaps agree with her predecessor, the right hon. Member for Islington, South and Finsbury (Mr. Smith), who declared, when my right hon. Friend the Member for Hitchin and Harpenden made his announcement, that such measures would ensure that the benefit system
"My aim is to modernise social security administration . . . This involves simplifying rules, changing traditional practices and making best use of new technology. It also means providing incentives for those who use our services to help us get things right. A key factor is the legal framework for decisions and appeal.
Listening to the opening remarks of the Secretary of State, it seemed that, in some cases, it was almost as though they were plucked directly from that foreword--there were some embellishments, but they were essentially the same words.
I believe that it is possible to improve significantly administration of our decisions and appeals arrangements."
"significant further running cost savings cannot be achieved just by more pruning or working harder"
and that
"we should aim to absorb both inflationary increases in pay and costs and increasing workloads over the next three years. That means aiming to increase productivity by 25 per cent."
I assume, as the Secretary of State has produced this Bill today, that she will want to tell us--which she does not--that she agrees with that statement and that it is, therefore, now a driving force in the Department. I am sure that the Minister for Welfare Reform agrees with it. I hope that she will make it clear that she agrees with the basic principle and with the 25 per cent. efficiency savings target.
"is pushed past breaking point",
with
"fewer people, longer delays, more mistakes and a worse service"?
That was his direct response to the Green Paper proposals in February 1996. Does the right hon. Lady agree with her predecessor? It is important to know the Government's starting point for their changes to the social security budget and welfare generally. It is reasonable to ask the right hon. Lady whether she agrees with my right hon. Friend the Member for Hitchin and Harpenden or with her shadow predecessor, who clearly challenged many of the measures that she now proposes to implement.
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