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Mr. James Wallace (Orkney and Shetland): Will the Secretary of State accept that, as a Scot, a Liberal Democrat and a partner with his party in the Constitutional Convention, I warmly welcome a substantial White Paper? Although we may have some debates at the margins about the details, and we could even have an interesting academic seminar on sovereignty, in practical political terms--the terms which will affect the everyday lives of the Scottish people--the proposals present us with an opportunity to create in Scotland a powerful and effective Parliament which will properly represent Scotland's political interests and priorities.
Will the right hon. Gentleman also acknowledge that, on the proportional representation system, clear signals can be given to many parts of Scotland which were sceptical in 1979 that the proposed Parliament will be a Parliament for the whole of Scotland and not one of one party representing one part of it?
The important principle of accountability will apply to taxation. Those who are elected to the Scottish Parliament will have proper fiscal accountability to those whom they represent.
Will the Secretary of State expand on what he had in mind when he said that Scottish Executive Ministers could on occasions speak and vote for the United Kingdom in the European Union? That is a welcome proposal.
Will the Secretary of State tell us when he intends to establish the independent committee that will examine the relationship between local government and the Scottish Parliament and Executive, and what its remit will be? Will it be able to take account of the concerns that I have previously expressed to the Secretary of State about the particular needs of islands areas?
Does the Secretary of State accept that, by opting for reserve, rather than devolved, powers and by agreeing to reduce the number of Scottish Members of Parliament at Westminster, he has embraced some of points that my colleagues and I put to the Labour party during the constitutional convention talks? Although this is an important step on the road to federalism, may we hope that, by the end of this process, we will have convinced the Government of the merits and logic of a federal solution for the whole of the United Kingdom?
Mr. Dewar:
I thank the hon. Gentleman for his welcome. I put it to him gently that he pushes his luck on occasions, and I suspect that, to his credit, he knows that.
We are anxious that the Parliament should be seen as devolved power from central Government, and not as encroaching on local government. However, we should trust the people in the Parliament to act responsibly.
A grown-up Parliament with grown-up responsibilities and duties should be able to make its own judgments about that relationship. We are undertaking some preliminary work and there will be an independent inquiry to examine, among other things, the relationship between the new Scottish Parliament and local government. I hope that it will come up with some useful guidance for the Parliament when it is in being.
I take the hon. Gentleman's points about a more proportional system and about the need fairly to represent everyone in Scotland. It is obviously not in the narrow self-interest of the Labour party to move down that road, so we should gain some credit for the fact that the Government have decided to do so, even from those who may disagree with it. It is a genuine attempt to ensure a balanced and proper start for a new democratic body. I think that I am entitled to make that plain.
The question of the number of Members in the Westminster Parliament is a matter of balance. The package should be considered in the round, and I think that we have got it about right. It will always be a matter of judgment. The circumstances of a Scottish Parliament are now very close, and the only people who could prevent it are the people of Scotland if apathy were to win the day, but I do not think that it will. In those changed circumstances, it was right to reconsider the matter and to reach a judgment. That is my judgment and the judgment of my colleagues, and we stand by it.
Mr. David Marshall (Glasgow, Shettleston):
Does the Secretary of State agree with me that the vast majority of Scottish people will give a warm welcome to this White Paper, which they will regard as fair and just what they need and want? They will also welcome the opportunity to vote in the proposed referendum on a Scottish Parliament. Will he reaffirm the Prime Minister's pledge to campaign for a yes, yes vote and to visit Scotland as part of that campaign?
Mr. Dewar:
I thank my hon. Friend for his remarks, and I appreciate his support. I suspect that the support that I shall receive from colleagues will come as a disappointment to the right hon. Member for Devizes (Mr. Ancram), but he will have to live with that.
My hon. Friend is right. The Prime Minister has enthusiastically endorsed the White Paper, and will appear in Scotland to make those views clear.
Mr. Alex Salmond (Banff and Buchan):
I welcome the publication of the White Paper at last, all the more so because it has upset the Conservative party so dreadfully. As the Secretary of State can imagine, the Scottish National party will examine its contents in great detail as we consider our response over the next few days.
The European dimension is clearly very important to the debate. Will the Secretary of State specify on what areas the Scottish Parliament could lead the United Kingdom delegation? The presiding officer of the Scottish Parliament is an important person. Will the Secretary of State confirm that the Scottish Parliament will elect its presiding officer?
The Secretary of State spoke of the need to mobilise opinion in Scotland. Does he agree that, if opinion is to be mobilised, people will have to be convinced that a Scottish Parliament will be a real Parliament that will
make a real difference? Will the right hon. Gentleman confirm that such a Parliament could, if it wished, remove tuition fees if it considered them to be an obstacle to participation in universities and other areas of higher education?
The Secretary of State and I have disagreed on a range of subjects relating to Scotland's future, but we have agreed on how these matters should be determined. Will the right hon. Gentleman reiterate that nothing in the documents, or in any response that he will give, will interfere in any way with the sovereign right of the people of Scotland to determine their own constitutional future, whatever that may be?
Mr. Dewar:
If I did try to build such barriers, they would be futile and without effect. At the end of the day, in practical politics, what matters is what people want. If the hon. Gentleman is able to carry the people of Scotland, no doubt he will be able to advance his cause. He has signally failed to do so in the past, but I know that he will keep trying, and he is entitled to do so. I believe, however, that the reform package that we have announced today, implemented with good will and spirit, will make his task that bit more difficult. No doubt we shall have further arguments in the future.
Higher education is, of course, a devolved area of responsibility. It has been the responsibility of the Scottish Office for some years, and that means that the Scottish Parliament will be able to exercise its judgment--although I stress that if it exercises its judgment in a way that costs money, it will have to find that money in its budget. No doubt Opposition Front Benchers will be pleased about that.
The hon. Gentleman asked about the presiding officer. Perhaps he remembers that, under the 1978 scheme, the Secretary of State for Scotland had an interesting role in chairing the first session while the presiding officer was selected. I do not aspire to that high office or honour, and the choice of a presiding officer will be entirely a matter for elected members.
Mr. John Home Robertson (East Lothian):
Does my right hon. Friend agree that the success of decentralised government in Catalonia, Bavaria, Massachusetts and hundreds of countries around the world is ample proof that my predecessor, Andrew Fletcher of Saltoun, was right to say that there was no need for Scotland to be subsumed in an incorporating union with no Scottish Parliament? I think that it was Lord Seafield who said that it was the end of an old song when the last Scottish Parliament was wrapped up in 1707. I pay tribute to my right hon. Friend for making it possible for the people of Scotland to elect a new Parliament for the new millennium.
Mr. Dewar:
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his typical and characterful contribution. When he finally retires from this place, I shall organise a collection and present him with a bound copy of the debates of the Scottish Parliament in 1706 and 1707.
Mr. David Maclean (Penrith and The Border):
Will the Secretary of State now stop dancing his little jig
Mr. Dewar:
I made it perfectly clear--and I am sure that the right hon. Gentleman will read what I said carefully--that European policy will remain with the United Kingdom delegation. We shall be part of that process, however, and when it is appropriate and proper we shall take the opportunity to contribute to debate.
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