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Mrs. Theresa May (Maidenhead): It is regrettable that we have to debate the amendment and that the Government have not seen fit simply to accept it. It will not undermine the purpose or principle of the Bill, which have been debated long and hard in the Chamber. I contributed to those debates several times, and my views are well documented.
We are debating whether the Government are willing to abide by commitments that were freely given before the election--commitments on which people have been able to base decisions about the schooling of their
children. The hon. Member for Bath (Mr. Foster) put the issue clearly in an intervention, when he referred to supporting the Government in keeping a promise.
The Government have not said that the commitment was not given. We are not debating whether the letter was sent by the hon. Member for Liverpool, Walton (Mr. Kilfoyle). He clearly gave an open-ended commitment that any child who had an assisted place at a school that went up to age 13 would keep that place up to 13.
As my hon. Friend the Member for South Cambridgeshire (Mr. Lansley) has just pointed out, there was no suggestion in the letter that parents of such children had to have read the letter and said that they had done so to be able to believe that the place would be honoured until 13. The Government are introducing an extra criterion, which has not yet been clarified, to assure themselves not that parents were aware that the place would not be honoured but that they were aware of the Kilfoyle letter.
My hon. Friend the Member for Chesham and Amersham (Mrs. Gillan) asked how the Department will decide whether the cases brought before it will be subject to the Secretary of State's discretion. Will there be a test for parents? Will they be asked what the Kilfoyle letter is, and if they do not know, will their child not get the place?
We are talking about a small number of children. If the Government want to keep faith with parents, they should be willing to accept the amendment. It is precisely because they appeared to try to forget about the Kilfoyle letter during the early stages of the Bill--to forget about a promise made by a Labour Member when he had shadow responsibility for the matter--and pretend that it did not exist, that parents are saying that they want the commitment enshrined in the Bill. They will not simply allow the exercise of discretion by the Secretary of State. It is important that people are clear about the Government's position and that the uncertainty that the Government are suggesting, through the exercise of discretion, does not continue for the parents of children who do not know the age at which the assisted places scheme will cease to apply.
Mr. Oliver Letwin (West Dorset):
I have only a brief point to add to the debate, which arises from the comments of some of my hon. Friends. My contribution is a last and, alas, perhaps a vain attempt to persuade the Government to change their mind on the issue.
As has been frequently pointed out during the debate, the issue at stake is whether parents and pupils can rely on the word of a spokesman for the Government. It should
be pointed out that it is in the interests of the Government that they should, in this case, make it clear that such reliance can be placed on the words of a Government spokesman. It is particularly in the interests of the Government in relation to an education issue because they seek to enact various education measures, the success of which will much depend on the ability of parents and students to rely on the words of Ministers about their future intentions.
As we all know, the Government have a vast majority, so they can easily reverse or amend their own legislation during this Parliament. The Government intend to introduce major measures in relation to, for example, student maintenance. If those who are subject to those measures and who are forced to take out loans feel that they cannot rely on the constancy of the Government's intention, that will do much to undermine the Government's policies. It is therefore surely in the interests not just of the country as a whole, but of the Government in terms of their legislative programme, that they should show, by accepting the amendment, that one can rely on a statement made by a Labour party spokesman in terms of its full meaning and without the slightest dilution.
Mrs. Angela Browning (Tiverton and Honiton):
During the election campaign, the Prime Minister spent a great deal of time talking about trust and honouring pledges in an age of new politics. The Bill has broken a bond of trust. The amendment would force the Government's hand and hold them to their pledge. They should have the decency and the humility to accept it.
My right hon. Friend the Member for Charnwood (Mr. Dorrell) and my hon. Friends the Members for Aldershot (Mr. Howarth), for Chesham and Amersham (Mrs. Gillan), for South Cambridgeshire (Mr. Lansley), for Maidenhead (Mrs. May) and for West Dorset (Mr. Letwin) have not rehearsed in detail the reason for our opposition to the Government's policy on assisted places. We have concentrated tonight on the question of the honour of a Government who are now being challenged to keep their word.
I heard the Secretary of State say from a sedentary position that our pleas were all cant. I can tell him that parents who are worried about their children's future do not regard the honouring of a man's word as cant. That is the very least they expect from a Government.
I remind the Secretary of State of the pledge that he is being asked to honour on behalf of his Prime Minister and his Government. During the election campaign, the former shadow schools Minister, the hon. Member for Liverpool, Walton (Mr. Kilfoyle), gave a pledge, not to the country, but to the parents of children who had been awarded places under the assisted places scheme. The hon. Gentleman wrote:
The Government have not taken that line since they published the Bill two months ago. There has been no talk of honouring places through to 13. Indeed, as we have heard this evening, Ministers have changed the line almost
every time the matter has been discussed. We are now told that Ministers will use their discretion in deciding who has a valid place and who does not. Possession and knowledge of the document written by a spokesman for his Government before the election will decide whether parents are in a strong position to argue their case and whether they feel that they are part of that pledge.
Ministers' warm words offer no guarantee to parents whose children have been awarded assisted places until the age of 13 as their proposed discretionary power could, by definition, be used to guarantee a child an assisted place or to deny a child an assisted place. In effect, Ministers are saying to parents, "Trust us. We will use our discretion."
I appeal to the Secretary of State tonight not to leave those people hanging in the balance. He should honour the words of his colleague which were used in a letter that is now on the public record. He should demonstrate to the country that the Government are honourable and that the Prime Minister is honourable. If he does not, his actions will be judged by the people.
Mr. Blunkett:
I intend to be brief in my reply. I used the word "cant" from a sedentary position because we get lectures from Conservative Members about broken promises, about letters being sent by Labour Members when in opposition and about Governments fulfilling their promises to the electorate. We are getting those lectures from people who broke every promise going in the previous 18 years. Immediately they came into office in 1979, they broke many of the promises they had made in opposition. One example was that they tripled the number of the unemployed although they came into office on a promise to reduce unemployment. Some of us have long memories and some of us remember the slogan, "Labour isn't working". Conservative Members should not quote a letter sent by a shadow Minister, and they should not talk about a promise that was not given in a manifesto and that did not form part of the election campaign and then describe our actions as cant.
Mr. Dorrell:
Would the right hon. Gentleman like to reflect a moment on the doctrine that he is enunciating? Is he really saying that the only words that the Labour party regards itself as bound by are the words contained in its election manifesto? Is he really saying that none of the words used by its spokesmen are commitments that can be regarded as binding? Alternatively, would he prefer to go back to the proposition that he should be regarded as bound by the letter written by the hon. Member for Liverpool, Walton (Mr. Kilfoyle)?
"If a child has a place at a school which runs to age 13, then that place will be honoured through to 13."
There was no equivocation, and no talk of potential abuse. There was a clear commitment to honour every place.
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