Previous SectionIndexHome Page


Mr. Desmond Swayne (New Forest, West): Pensioners.

Yvette Cooper: If the hon. Gentleman wants to talk about pensioners, let us talk about the 15,000 pensioners in my constituency who were horrified by the way in which the previous Conservative Government treated them and their future. They were denied their full entitlement to benefits and denied help to get the extra income support to which they were entitled. Some 2,300 people in my constituency were mis-sold personal pensions--

Mr. Swayne: However much the hon. Lady wishes to return to better days and to bring back the past, I remind her that we are discussing this Finance Bill. Does she agree that pensioners, those approaching pensionable age and even those some years away from pensionable age who are making savings decisions, require, more than anything else, stability in their assumptions? This Budget has robbed them of any stability. Does she accept that the Budget will go down in history as one that attacks the saver?

Yvette Cooper: I am not trying to look backwards; I am trying to look forwards. The hon. Gentleman makes my point--pensioners need stability. They need to know that their pension funds will be worth something when they retire. What matters to them is the future performance of the pension funds. That performance depends on the state of the economy in which those pension funds are invested. That performance depends most of all on whether the companies in which they invest continue to grow and to prosper, rather than being slammed into a recession with the consequent destruction of capacity, of jobs and of those companies' value. The previous Government pushed companies and pension funds into such a recession.

The hon. Member for New Forest, West (Mr. Swayne) is absolutely right: stability is what matters--for people of my generation, considering our future. What most jeopardises our security and future stability is the fear that we may lose our jobs because the economy again tumbles into recession--which has been caused by the boom-bust, irresponsible policies pursued by the previous Government. Ministers in the previous Government simply shrugged their shoulders and said, "The economy has nothing to do with us; it can carry on rolling up and down, up and down."

Mr. Nicholas Winterton: We have the strongest economy in Europe.

Yvette Cooper: The previous Government slammed our economy into a deep and damaging recession,

29 Jul 1997 : Column 242

in which people lost their jobs and their homes were repossessed. Conservative Members seem to shrug their shoulders over those consequences.

We now have a chance to do something about that cycle and to try to prevent it from happening again--to make a difference for the sake of our future, of our children and of our grandchildren.

Mr. Cranston: Will my hon. Friend give way?

Mr. Boswell rose--

Yvette Cooper: Yes.

Mr. Deputy Speaker: I call Mr. Boswell.

Mr. Boswell: First, I congratulate the hon. Member for Northampton, South (Mr. Clarke) on his maiden speech.

Mr. Livingstone: On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. It is clear that my hon. Friend the Member for Pontefract and Castleford (Yvette Cooper) gave way to a colleague behind her--not to this.

Mr. Deputy Speaker: It was not clear to whom the hon. Lady gave way. I thought that she had finished her speech. I call Mr. Cranston.

Mr. Cranston: Does my hon. Friend the Member for Pontefract and Castleford agree that, in Committee, we heard nothing about issues of growth or, specifically, of social justice? We focused on the needs of only a few people who would be affected by withdrawal of relief on private medical insurance--a measure that will affect no more than 550,000 people.

Yvette Cooper: I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention. The Budget will be remembered for the contribution that it makes to jobs for the long-term unemployed. We are raising money and enabling people to get the jobs and the future that they need.

Future pensioners will depend most on stability, on jobs and on having the money to contribute to their own pensions--which they will not have if they are without a job and on the dole. Future and current pensioners care most about their children and their grandchildren and about jobs for them. Our Budget will get 250,000 young people off benefit and into work, making a huge difference to the 900 under-25s in my constituency who have no job and very little hope for the future. They certainly deserve better than they received from the previous Conservative Government.

The Budget has managed to provide extra resources for the health service, for education and for rebuilding our schools.

Mr. Ben Chapman (Wirral, South): My hon. Friend is talking about the welfare-to-work programme and how it will affect 250,000 young people. In my constituency, as many as 2,000 young people are striving to get work, and as many as one in four are out of employment. Many of our young people have no aspirations, no hope and no

29 Jul 1997 : Column 243

opportunity of getting work, and they very much welcome the Budget. My entire constituency welcomes the Budget, and I applaud my hon. Friend's efforts to explain it.

Yvette Cooper: I thank my hon. Friend--[Interruption.] It is such a shame that Conservative Members want to cluck, crow and jeer when the subject under discussion is the future of the young unemployed and their opportunity to thrive and prosper--an opportunity not given to them by the previous Government but which they are being given by this Government, who believe in a future for the people of Britain.

9.59 pm

Mr. Boswell: The hon. Member for Pontefract and Castleford (Yvette Cooper) has clearly cast herself in the role of winding up the debate. No Government Front Bencher was prepared to do it, but the hon. Lady did not make too bad a job of it.

I attempted to congratulate my constituency neighbour, the hon. Member for Northampton, South (Mr. Clarke), on a most elegant speech full of wit and in which he paid a gracious tribute to Michael Morris.

I have very little time to say anything else about the Bill because of the operation of the guillotine. It is a Bill that should never have been. There might be some credibility in the proposal for the windfall tax, but there is no mandate for or credibility in the other 15--

It being Ten o'clock, Mr. Deputy Speaker put the Question already proposed from the Chair, pursuant to Order [14 July] and Resolution [yesterday].

Question put, That the Bill be now read the Third time:--

The House divided: Ayes 336, Noes 168.

Division No. 74
[10 pm


AYES


Abbott, Ms Diane
Ainger, Nick
Ainsworth, Robert (Cov'try NE)
Allen, Graham (Nottingham N)
Anderson, Donald (Swansea E)
Anderson, Janet (Rossendale)
Armstrong, Ms Hilary
Ashton, Joe
Atherton, Ms Candy
Atkins, Charlotte
Banks, Tony
Barnes, Harry
Barron, Kevin
Battle, John
Bayley, Hugh
Beard, Nigel
Beckett, Rt Hon Mrs Margaret
Begg, Miss Anne (Aberd'n S)
Bell, Martin (Tatton)
Bell, Stuart (Middlesbrough)
Bennett, Andrew F
Benton, Joe
Berry, Roger
Best, Harold
Betts, Clive
Blears, Ms Hazel
Blizzard, Bob
Blunkett, Rt Hon David
Boateng, Paul
Borrow, David
Bradley, Keith (Withington)
Bradley, Peter (The Wrekin)
Bradshaw, Ben
Brinton, Mrs Helen
Brown, Rt Hon Gordon
(Dunfermline E)
Brown, Rt Hon Nick (Newcastle E)
Browne, Desmond (Kilmarnock)
Buck, Ms Karen
Burden, Richard
Butler, Christine
Byers, Stephen
Caborn, Richard
Campbell, Mrs Anne (C'bridge)
Campbell, Ronnie (Blyth V)
Campbell-Savours, Dale
Canavan, Dennis
Caplin, Ivor
Caton, Martin
Cawsey, Ian
Chapman, Ben (Wirral S)
Chisholm, Malcolm
Church, Ms Judith
Clapham, Michael
Clark, Rt Hon Dr David (S Shields)
Clark, Dr Lynda
(Edinburgh Pentlands)
Clarke, Eric (Midlothian)
Clarke, Rt Hon Tom (Coatbridge)
Clarke, Tony (Northampton S)
Clelland, David
Clwyd, Ann
Coaker, Vernon
Coffey, Ms Ann
Coleman, Iain (Hammersmith)
Cook, Frank (Stockton N)
Cooper, Yvette
Corbyn, Jeremy
Corston, Ms Jean
Cousins, Jim
Cox, Tom
Cranston, Ross
Crausby, David
Cryer, Mrs Ann (Keighley)
Cummings, John
Cunliffe, Lawrence
Cunningham, Jim (Cov'try S)
Cunningham, Rt Hon Dr John
(Copeland)
Curtis-Thomas, Mrs Claire
Dalyell, Tam
Darling, Rt Hon Alistair
Darvill, Keith
Davey, Valerie (Bristol W)
Davies, Rt Hon Denzil (Llanelli)
Davies, Rt Hon Ron (Caerphilly)
Davis, Terry (B'ham Hodge H)
Dawson, Hilton
Dean, Mrs Janet
Denham, John
Dewar, Rt Hon Donald
Dobbin, Jim
Dobson, Rt Hon Frank
Donohoe, Brian H
Doran, Frank
Drown, Ms Julia
Dunwoody, Mrs Gwyneth
Eagle, Angela (Wallasey)
Eagle, Maria (L'pool Garston)
Edwards, Huw
Efford, Clive
Ellman, Ms Louise
Ennis, Jeff
Etherington, Bill
Field, Rt Hon Frank
Fitzpatrick, Jim
Fitzsimons, Lorna
Flint, Caroline
Flynn, Paul
Follett, Barbara
Foster, Rt Hon Derek
Foster, Michael Jabez (Hastings)
Foster, Michael John (Worcester)
Fyfe, Maria
Galbraith, Sam
Gapes, Mike
George, Bruce (Walsall S)
Gerrard, Neil
Gibson, Dr Ian
Gilroy, Mrs Linda
Godman, Dr Norman A
Godsiff, Roger
Golding, Mrs Llin
Gordon, Mrs Eileen
Graham, Thomas
Grant, Bernie
Griffiths, Jane (Reading E)
Griffiths, Nigel (Edinburgh S)
Griffiths, Win (Bridgend)
Grocott, Bruce
Gunnell, John
Hain, Peter
Hall, Patrick (Bedford)
Hamilton, Fabian (Leeds NE)
Hanson, David
Harman, Rt Hon Ms Harriet
Heal, Mrs Sylvia
Healey, John
Henderson, Doug (Newcastle N)
Henderson, Ivan (Harwich)
Hepburn, Stephen
Heppell, John
Hesford, Stephen
Hill, Keith
Hinchliffe, David
Hodge, Ms Margaret
Home Robertson, John
Hoon, Geoffrey
Hopkins, Kelvin
Howarth, Alan (Newport E)
Howells, Dr Kim
Hoyle, Lindsay
Hughes, Ms Beverley (Stretford)
Hughes, Kevin (Doncaster N)
Humble, Mrs Joan
Hurst, Alan
Hutton, John
Iddon, Dr Brian
Illsley, Eric
Jackson, Ms Glenda (Hampstead)
Jackson, Helen (Hillsborough)
Jamieson, David
Jenkins, Brian (Tamworth)
Johnson, Alan (Hull W & Hessle)
Johnson, Miss Melanie
(Welwyn Hatfield)
Jones, Helen (Warrington N)
Jones, Ms Jenny
(Wolverh'ton SW)
Jones, Dr Lynne (Selly Oak)
Jones, Martyn (Clwyd S)
Jowell, Ms Tessa
Kaufman, Rt Hon Gerald
Keen, Alan (Feltham & Heston)
Keen, Mrs Ann (Brentford)
Kennedy, Jane (Wavertree)
Khabra, Piara S
Kidney, David
King, Andy (Rugby & Kenilworth)
King, Ms Oona (Bethnal Green)
Kumar, Dr Ashok
Ladyman, Dr Stephen
Lawrence, Ms Jackie
Laxton, Bob
Lepper, David
Leslie, Christopher
Levitt, Tom
Lewis, Ivan (Bury S)
Lewis, Terry (Worsley)
Liddell, Mrs Helen
Linton, Martin
Livingstone, Ken
Lloyd, Tony (Manchester C)
Lock, David
Love, Andrew
McAllion, John
McAvoy, Thomas
McCabe, Stephen
McCafferty, Ms Chris
McCartney, Ian (Makerfield)
Macdonald, Calum
McDonnell, John
McFall, John
McIsaac, Shona
McKenna, Ms Rosemary
Mackinlay, Andrew
McLeish, Henry
MacShane, Denis
Mactaggart, Fiona
McWalter, Tony
Mahon, Mrs Alice
Mallaber, Judy
Marek, Dr John
Marsden, Gordon (Blackpool S)
Marsden, Paul (Shrewsbury)
Marshall, Jim (Leicester S)
Martlew, Eric
Maxton, John
Meacher, Rt Hon Michael
Meale, Alan
Merron, Gillian
Michael, Alun
Michie, Bill (Shef'ld Heeley)
Milburn, Alan
Miller, Andrew
Mitchell, Austin
Moffatt, Laura
Moonie, Dr Lewis
Moran, Ms Margaret
Morgan, Rhodri (Cardiff W)
Morley, Elliot
Morris, Ms Estelle (B'ham Yardley)
Mountford, Kali
Mudie, George
Mullin, Chris
Murphy, Denis (Wansbeck)
Murphy, Paul (Torfaen)
Naysmith, Dr Doug
O'Brien, Bill (Normanton)
O'Brien, Mike (N Warks)
O'Hara, Edward
Olner, Bill
Organ, Mrs Diana
Palmer, Dr Nick
Pearson, Ian
Pendry, Tom
Perham, Ms Linda
Pickthall, Colin
Pike, Peter L
Plaskitt, James
Pond, Chris
Pope, Greg
Pound, Stephen
Powell, Sir Raymond
Prentice, Ms Bridget (Lewisham E)
Prentice, Gordon (Pendle)
Prescott, Rt Hon John
Primarolo, Dawn
Prosser, Gwyn
Quin, Ms Joyce
Quinn, Lawrie
Rammell, Bill
Raynsford, Nick
Reed, Andrew (Loughborough)
Reid, Dr John (Hamilton N)
Robertson, Rt Hon George
(Hamilton S)
Robinson, Geoffrey (Cov'try NW)
Roche, Mrs Barbara
Rogers, Allan
Rooker, Jeff
Rooney, Terry
Ross, Ernie (Dundee W)
Rowlands, Ted
Ruane, Chris
Ruddock, Ms Joan
Russell, Ms Christine (Chester)
Ryan, Ms Joan
Salter, Martin
Savidge, Malcolm
Sawford, Phil
Sedgemore, Brian
Shaw, Jonathan
Sheldon, Rt Hon Robert
Short, Rt Hon Clare
Simpson, Alan (Nottingham S)
Singh, Marsha
Skinner, Dennis
Smith, Rt Hon Andrew (Oxford E)
Smith, Angela (Basildon)
Smith, Rt Hon Chris (Islington S)
Smith, Miss Geraldine
(Morecambe & Lunesdale)
Smith, Jacqui (Redditch)
Smith, John (Glamorgan)
Smith, Llew (Blaenau Gwent)
Snape, Peter
Soley, Clive
Southworth, Ms Helen
Spellar, John
Squire, Ms Rachel
Starkey, Dr Phyllis
Stevenson, George
Stewart, Ian (Eccles)
Stinchcombe, Paul
Stoate, Dr Howard
Strang, Rt Hon Dr Gavin
Straw, Rt Hon Jack
Stringer, Graham
Stuart, Ms Gisela (Edgbaston)
Sutcliffe, Gerry
Taylor, Rt Hon Mrs Ann
(Dewsbury)
Taylor, Ms Dari (Stockton S)
Taylor, David (NW Leics)
Thomas, Gareth (Clwyd W)
Thomas, Gareth R (Harrow W)
Timms, Stephen
Tipping, Paddy
Todd, Mark
Touhig, Don
Trickett, Jon
Truswell, Paul
Turner, Dennis (Wolverh'ton SE)
Turner, Desmond (Kemptown)
Turner, Dr George (NW Norfolk)
Twigg, Stephen (Enfield)
Vaz, Keith
Vis, Dr Rudi
Ward, Ms Claire
Watts, David
White, Brian
Whitehead, Dr Alan
Wicks, Malcolm
Williams, Rt Hon Alan
(Swansea W)
Wilson, Brian
Winnick, David
Winterton, Ms Rosie (Doncaster C)
Wise, Audrey
Wood, Mike
Wray, James
Wright, Dr Tony (Cannock)
Wright, Tony D (Gt Yarmouth)
Wyatt, Derek

Tellers for the Ayes:


Mr. Jim Dowd and
Mr. Jon Owen Jones.


NOES


Ainsworth, Peter (E Surrey)
Allan, Richard (Shef'ld Hallam)
Amess, David
Ancram, Rt Hon Michael
Arbuthnot, James
Atkinson, David (Bour'mth E)
Atkinson, Peter (Hexham)
Baldry, Tony
Ballard, Mrs Jackie
Beggs, Roy (E Antrim)
Beith, Rt Hon A J
Bercow, John
Blunt, Crispin
Body, Sir Richard
Boswell, Tim
Bottomley, Peter (Worthing W)
Bottomley, Rt Hon Mrs Virginia
Brady, Graham
Brazier, Julian
Breed, Colin
Brooke, Rt Hon Peter
Browning, Mrs Angela
Bruce, Ian (S Dorset)
Burnett, John
Burns, Simon
Burstow, Paul
Butterfill, John
Campbell, Menzies (NE Fife)
Cash, William
Chapman, Sir Sydney
(Chipping Barnet)
Chope, Christopher
Clark, Rt Hon Alan (Kensington)
Clark, Dr Michael (Rayleigh)
Clarke, Rt Hon Kenneth
(Rushcliffe)
Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey
Cormack, Sir Patrick
Cotter, Brian
Cran, James
Curry, Rt Hon David
Davey, Edward (Kingston)
Davis, Rt Hon David (Haltemprice)
Davies, Quentin (Grantham)
Day, Stephen
Dorrell, Rt Hon Stephen
Duncan, Alan
Duncan Smith, Iain
Emery, Rt Hon Sir Peter
Evans, Nigel
Faber, David
Fabricant, Michael
Fallon, Michael
Fearn, Ronnie
Flight, Howard
Forsythe, Clifford
Forth, Rt Hon Eric
Fox, Dr Liam
Gale, Roger
Garnier, Edward
George, Andrew (St Ives)
Gibb, Nick
Gill, Christopher
Gillan, Mrs Cheryl
Gorman, Mrs Teresa
Gorrie, Donald
Gray, James
Green, Damian
Greenway, John
Grieve, Dominic
Hamilton, Rt Hon Sir Archie
Hammond, Philip
Harvey, Nick
Hawkins, Nick
Heath, David (Somerton & Frome)
Heathcoat-Amory, Rt Hon David
Horam, John
Howard, Rt Hon Michael
Howarth, Gerald (Aldershot)
Hughes, Simon (Southwark N)
Hunter, Andrew
Jack, Rt Hon Michael
Jackson, Robert (Wantage)
Jenkin, Bernard (N Essex)
Johnson Smith,
Rt Hon Sir Geoffrey
Jones, Nigel (Cheltenham)
Keetch, Paul
Kennedy, Charles (Ross Skye)
Key, Robert
King, Rt Hon Tom (Bridgwater)
Kirkbride, Miss Julie
Kirkwood, Archy
Laing, Mrs Eleanor
Leigh, Edward
Letwin, Oliver
Lewis, Dr Julian (New Forest E)
Lidington, David
Lilley, Rt Hon Peter
Livsey, Richard
Lloyd, Rt Hon Sir Peter (Fareham)
Loughton, Tim
Luff, Peter
Lyell, Rt Hon Sir Nicholas
MacGregor, Rt Hon John
McIntosh, Miss Anne
Maclean, Rt Hon David
Maclennan, Robert
McLoughlin, Patrick
Major, Rt Hon John
Malins, Humfrey
Mawhinney, Rt Hon Dr Brian
Merchant, Piers
Michie, Mrs Ray (Argyll & Bute)
Moore, Michael
Moss, Malcolm
Nicholls, Patrick
Norman, Archie
Oaten, Mark
Öpik, Lembit
Ottaway, Richard
Page, Richard
Paice, James
Paterson, Owen
Pickles, Eric
Prior, David
Redwood, Rt Hon John
Robertson, Laurence (Tewk'b'ry)
Roe, Mrs Marion (Broxbourne)
Ruffley, David
Russell, Bob (Colchester)
Sanders, Adrian
Sayeed, Jonathan
Shephard, Rt Hon Mrs Gillian
Shepherd, Richard (Aldridge)
Simpson, Keith (Mid-Norfolk)
Smith, Sir Robert (W Ab'd'ns)
Soames, Nicholas
Spelman, Mrs Caroline
Spicer, Sir Michael
Spring, Richard
Stanley, Rt Hon Sir John
Steen, Anthony
Streeter, Gary
Stunell, Andrew
Swayne, Desmond
Syms, Robert
Tapsell, Sir Peter
Taylor, John M (Solihull)
Taylor, Sir Teddy
Temple-Morris, Peter
Tredinnick, David
Trend, Michael
Tyler, Paul
Tyrie, Andrew
Viggers, Peter
Wallace, James
Walter, Robert
Wardle, Charles
Waterson, Nigel
Webb, Professor Steve
Wells, Bowen
Whitney, Sir Raymond
Whittingdale, John
Widdecombe, Rt Hon Miss Ann
Willetts, David
Willis, Phil
Winterton, Nicholas (Macclesfield)
Woodward, Shaun
Yeo, Tim
Young, Rt Hon Sir George

Tellers for the Noes:


Mr. Oliver Heald and
Sir David Madel.

Question accordingly agreed to.

29 Jul 1997 : Column 247

Bill read the Third time, and passed.


Next Section

IndexHome Page