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Mr. John Smith (Vale of Glamorgan): The hon. Gentleman is exploiting it now.
Dr. Lewis: No, I am not; I am applauding the fact that the Minister for the Armed Forces admitted that at one stage he was on the wrong side of the argument. I could not help but be amused, however, at the contrasting claim of the hon. Member for Blaydon (Mr. McWilliam) that, when he was in CND, it had been a multilateralist organisation.
I have the book that I wrote when I was working in Conservative research department, and I have the hon. Gentleman's entry. A measure of the multilateralism that he supported can be seen from two quotations. In 1982, the hon. Gentleman signed early-day motion 609 in which he saluted the "courage and determination" of anti-nuclear protestors at Greenham Common as indicating
I turn to Trident. It has been suggested that money could be saved by reducing readiness through halving the number of warheads and taking the submarines off 24-hour patrol. Time does not permit me to examine that suggestion in detail, but I ask the Minister: does he think that he will save any money by removing warheads and putting a smaller number on Trident missiles? If he will not--and I suspect that it may cost money--it will be the most meaningless form of gesture politics.
By reducing the readiness of Trident or any other armed force, we run another risk. If we wait for a crisis to arise before restoring readiness, we risk intensifying the crisis by restoring readiness when the international scene has darkened. That is one of the reasons why, when Britain had run down our forces as a result of the appalling 10-year no-war rule which operated from 1919 to 1933--we finally got rid of it about 10 months after Hitler came to power--the Government did not feel able to campaign openly for rearmament until 1936. They were afraid of intensifying the crisis by rearming sooner.
We must recognise that Trident is a comprehensive deterrent against nuclear blackmail from whichever rogue Government or future super-power the threat may come. We have a great advantage over the planners of the 1920s who, as I have said in this place before, had so little idea of where the threat would come from that each of the three armed services made its hypothetical defence plans against an entirely different country. If I remember correctly, the Royal Navy made plans against the Japanese; the Army planned against the Russians; and the RAF planned against the French. I shall comment no further on the latter point.
We do not face that sort of dilemma with Trident because it will deter any possible nuclear threat from any identifiable future enemy. I remind those who ask from where the threat would come or who say, "If there is no threat today, why do we need it?" that the life span of our deterrent will be at least 30 years. It is worth remembering that the life span of the third reich was only 12 years, from 1933 to 1945.
We should remember also that Trident must constitute a minimum deterrent, not just at the beginning of its 30-year life span but at the end. Trident must retain flexibility so that it will be able to meet future minimum deterrence standards. I regret the fact that the Liberal Democrat defence spokesman, the hon. and learned Member for North-East Fife (Mr. Campbell), said yesterday that we must abandon the Moscow criterion: the ability to get through a sophisticated anti-ballistic missile system. If we do that, what will we do if someone develops a sophisticated system during that 30-year period? People will jump up and down and say, "You must not raise your minimum deterrent, because you will intensify the international crisis."
I turn now to the security services. I am concerned about a report published in The Guardian that referred to the Minister without Portfolio--a gentleman who seems to have been almost as unpopular with MI5 as he is with his party colleagues. In the report headed "Mandelson wants MI5 files pulped", the Minister defended himself against the fact that an M15 file on him had been opened, while admitting that he had indeed been an activist in the Young Communist League. He said:
Mr. Godman:
And Saddam Hussein.
Dr. Lewis:
I agree. It is a disgrace that the Minister without Portfolio does not even have the shame to admit that he was wrong. He seeks instead to destroy the files that show that he and many others were wrong. In George Orwell's novel "1984", it is said:
Ms Dari Taylor (Stockton, South):
In yesterday's defence debate, my hon. Friend the Member for Walsall, South (Mr. George)--who is now the excellent Chair of the Defence Select Committee--said that many new Members now sit on that Committee. I am privileged to announce that I am one such member. After my hon. Friend the Member for Crawley (Laura Moffatt), I am the second woman to sit on the Defence Committee. We are the only two women to do so in 17 years. I believe that that sends a positive signal that women not only are treated with respect in the House but are seen to have a role in the defence of the realm and in the armed forces.
I was also very pleased with the comments of the Secretary of State and the Minister yesterday. They outlined changes in opportunities for women in the armed forces. We are making a "quantum leap", and I am more than pleased about that. The move is not just valued or appropriate, but well overdue. I am delighted that the hon. Member for New Forest, West (Mr. Swayne) is in the Chamber to hear my speech, because I found his comments shameful and thoroughly unacceptable.
The Army's report into discrimination and harassment in the service has launched a very important drive. It requests that we eliminate harassment and discrimination, which I think is totally appropriate. From my experience as an equal rights officer for many years, I suggest that the path will be bumpy and the achievement very difficult, but nevertheless important. However, it is important for me to tell Ministers that I am disappointed that women are still excluded from certain roles within the armed forces: contact battle roles, the infantry and armoured regiments. I think that that is a problem, not because I believe that all women should take on combat roles--I do not believe that all men should do so--but because I believe that individuals have the right to choose. That is the absolute principle: individuals have the inviolable right to be treated equally. I believe that that should be the modus operandi of my Government.
I believe also that selection should be on the grounds of talent, not gender. It should certainly not be based--I make this point with great gusto--on prejudice. I found the comments of the hon. Member for New Forest, West shameful. There is no sense of political correctness in the Government's actions: we all wish to be part of Great Britain and part of the armed forces. We do not see you having an exclusive capability or an exclusive right. I am therefore disappointed that there are still only limited, albeit extended, roles for women.
The three services have used women in support roles on the front line, on warships and on RAF bases. How is it that we are good enough in support roles but somehow not good enough in combat? How dare you have the presumption to tell us that? We have the right to choose.
We all understand that it is crucial that we maintain a fully combat-effective Army. I have no problem with that, but I have a problem with the notion that, somewhere along the line, women need to be protected. I understand that concern and, much of the time, I respect it, but we do not need your protection--
Mr. Swayne:
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. It might not be my place to say so, but I feel that I ought to protect you from the hon. Lady, who is being rather unpleasant to you.
Mr. Deputy Speaker:
The occupant of the Chair does not need that kind of protection.
Ms Taylor:
I have nearly finished what I want to say.
"the deep revulsion of the British people to the presence of nuclear bases on United Kingdom soil."
On "Newsnight", as late as October 1988, he said:
"We've got to negotiate them"--
British nuclear weapons--
"away. If we can't negotiate them away realistically, we've still got to get rid of them."
Never mind, the hon. Gentleman is on the right side now.
"I was not a subversive or a threat to national security--I was a teenager holding ordinary leftwing views."
I was a teenager at the same time as the Minister without Portfolio, and I assure him that his were not ordinary left-wing views; they were despicable views in support of a murderous totalitarian political system. Anyone who had held similar views about the Nazis would never be allowed to forget it.
"Who controls the past controls the future: who controls the present controls the past."
Mr. Deputy Speaker:
Order. The hon. Gentleman's time is up.
8.25 pm
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