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Madam Speaker: I call Mr. Peter Atkinson to oppose the motion.
4.28 pm
Mr. Peter Atkinson (Hexham): It is proper that I declare an interest at this stage, in that I am a consultant for the British Field Sports Society, an organisation which represents not only coursing but hunting, shooting, fishing and falconry.
This Bill has become something of a hardy annual with the hon. Member for West Lancashire (Mr. Pickthall); he has brought it up about four times in recent years, and I believe that it is time to explode some of the myths that he has perpetuated about the ancient sport of coursing. The hon. Gentleman's correspondent from Manningtree is correct in saying that hare coursing is, with falconry, one of the oldest field sports in existence.
Make no mistake, Mr. Deputy Speaker: this is a question not simply of animal rights, but of individual rights. The hon. Member for West Lancashire said that it did not bear a moment's examination to suggest that he was proposing to take away the right of decision from individuals, but to me, that is the central issue in what he proposes. The matter should not be decided by law; people should be allowed to take part in that activity if they consider that it is right.
Defending individual freedom is what the House is about. We are in the Chamber because we have a duty to allow people to exercise their conscience on the matter and not to be dictated to.
People who follow coursing are annoyed by the ignorance of the sport on the part of the people who attack it. I give credit to the hon. Member for West Lancashire because I understand that he turned up at the Waterloo cup about two or three years ago. He spent about a quarter of an hour or 20 minutes there, during which time not a single hare was killed, but I commend him for having done so.
Opinion polls suggest that the majority of the people who are opposed to coursing--I accept that there are many--understand little of the sport. Some years ago, an exercise was put in hand assembling a focus group--now a common thing with the Labour party--to ask people what they thought about coursing. The majority of people, when asked, said that coursing was letting a captive hare out of a box in an enclosed field and chasing it around the enclosed field with two greyhounds; the greyhound that killed it was the winner. Every one of those points is untrue. If that was the sport of coursing, I certainly should not be here defending it. Coursing is not about that.
Hon. Members are equally guilty of such ignorance. A Labour Member who introduced a similar Bill to the one before us appeared on a "Newsnight" programme. Mr. Paxman showed him two photographs, one of a rabbit and one of a hare. He was asked which was the hare and which was the rabbit, and he admitted that he could not tell. The previous time that a similar Bill was sent to a Standing Committee of the House, a Labour Member suggested that a course lasted for 40 minutes, whereas the average length of a course is 35 seconds.
I would spare the blushes of those Members, but it is wrong that Labour Members, especially, condemn the activities of perfectly reasonable individuals without knowing anything about those activities. Indeed, it is an abuse of Parliament to do so.
Hare coursing is about the pursuit of wild hares that are not restrained or interfered with. The object of coursing is to test the stamina, skill and ability of two greyhounds, not to kill hares, which is why very few hares are killed. In the last season--records are kept by the National Coursing Club--245 hares were killed during 89 days of coursing. On the other hand, it is possible to run a successful coursing meeting--such as the one that the hon. Member for West Lancashire will have seen at Altcar--only if there is a large population of wild, healthy hares in that area, so strict conservation methods must be introduced to ensure that the local hare population prospers. That is why, on coursing estates throughout the country and on the farms where the clubs run, the hare population is far higher than average.
The hon. Member for West Lancashire is right to say that the hare population has declined. It declined until about 20 years ago, although it is stable now. However, that was the result of changing farming practices and the fact that farmers now make silage, not the traditional hay. The decline is not, however, in the areas where coursing clubs look after the hares.
If he went to Altcar, the hon. Member for West Lancashire would see the conservation effort that is made by gamekeepers to protect the hares from predators such as foxes, and from human predators such as poachers. We share the hon. Gentleman's disapproval of illegal coursing, which is merely poaching. Even if the Bill became law, there would be no guarantee that those individuals would take any more notice of it than they take of the law of the land now. The only way to deal with those people is to arrest and prosecute them, and confiscate their vehicles.
If the Bill succeeds, the hare population on coursing estates will decline, as it has in other parts of the country. The hon. Gentleman may save 245 hares, but, ultimately, we would see the decline of many thousands of hares on
that field. The Bill is a bad bargain for hares and the hon. Gentleman should understand some of the paradoxes involved in the conservation of wild species.
The hon. Gentleman talked about the crowd. Curiously, last year he was rather rude about the crowd on what is known as the "public bank" at Altcar. Last year, I asked somebody from the British Field Sports Society to carry out a survey to find out who was sitting on the bank, and the news for the hon. Gentleman is that most of them were his constituents. Naturally, they are from the area and, traditionally, over many years, they have come to watch the Waterloo cup, so many of the people whom the hon. Gentleman described as beer-loaded lager louts are his constituents. Some have come from further afield: some are miners or factory workers; others are unemployed. There is no reason why they should not enjoy a traditional sport, as they always have.
Three proper substantial investigations have been carried out into coursing since the war, and all three have found in its favour. I refer the hon. Gentleman to the last, which was carried out by a House of Lords Special Select Committee set up in 1976 at the behest of a Labour Government.
Mr. Kevin McNamara (Hull, North):
It was not.
Mr. Atkinson:
If the hon. Gentleman will listen, that Special Select Committee concluded--
Mr. McNamara:
Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Mr. Atkinson:
No, I will not give way because I have only a short time to speak--[Interruption.]
Mr. Deputy Speaker (Sir Alan Haselhurst):
Order. The hon. Member for Hull, North (Mr. McNamara) has been here long enough to know that we are operating
Mr. Atkinson:
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker.
Mr. McNamara:
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Is it in order for the hon. Gentleman to mislead the House by saying that a Labour Government established that Committee? They did not do so. It was established by a Tory majority in the House of Lords after my Bill, supported by the Government, had successfully gone through this House.
Mr. Deputy Speaker:
That is a point for debate, which, if necessary, can be corrected in some other way.
Mr. Atkinson:
I said that the Committee was set up under a Labour Government--it was 1976, which I recall was the time of a Labour Government. It is important not to argue about that but to understand the conclusions of the House of Lords Special Select Committee that
Question put, pursuant to Standing Order No. 23 (Motions for leave to bring in Bills and nomination of Select Committees at commencement of public business), and agreed to.
Bill ordered to be brought in by Mr. Colin Pickthall, Mr. David Amess, Mrs. Jackie Ballard, Mr. Stephen Day, Mr. Neil Gerrard, Mr. Mike Hall, Mr. John Heppell, Mr. Eddie O'Hara, Mr. Gordon Prentice, Mr. Kevin McNamara, Mr. Alan Meale and Angela Smith.
Mr. Colin Pickthall accordingly presented a Bill to make hare coursing illegal: And the same was read the First time; and ordered to be read a Second time upon Friday 28 November, and to be printed [Bill 70].
Order for Second Reading read.
The Minister for Science, Energy and Industry (Mr. John Battle):
I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.
This is a short Bill, but it is of central importance for growth, competitiveness, innovation and jobs, and for maintaining the United Kingdom's position at the leading edge of the information revolution. It deals with the management of the radio spectrum. While that may sound a narrow, perhaps rather technical, matter, the provisions are crucial for ensuring the continued success of some of the most dynamic sectors of our economy, including radio, telephony, broadcasting and information technology.
"the Committee have concluded that the Bill is not a suitable instrument for reducing the suffering of hares. . . The ethical question should in their opinion be for the individual conscience and not for legislation."
That is the position that this House should hold for today.
4.38 pm
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