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Dr. Palmer: Does the Conservative party oppose all auctions? The hon. Gentleman has drawn attention to the fact that Labour might not wish to use them in all circumstances. Are there circumstances in which the hon. Gentleman would favour their use?
Mr. Fallon: We are opposed to auctions as described in the Bill for these purposes. As my right hon. Friend the Member for Wokingham said, we did not introduce the legislation. The Bill has been presented by the hon. Gentleman's Government, and it is for them to defend the use of auctions and to tell the House--because these are serious sums of public money--exactly into which financial and budget years the sums raised will be allocated. Perhaps the Minister could sketch out her thinking about when the first auctions might take place and say whether any tranches of this £1.5 billion--a mouthwatering sum to the Treasury--have to be raised and handed over to the Treasury by the end of any particular year.
There is an area in which I can help the hon. Gentleman. We have always argued that as the industry has grown and more new companies have come into it, we should always consider the extent to which licences can be made more transferable and the whole process of assignment made easier. One of the purposes of our White Paper was precisely to encourage the Radiocommunications Agency to ensure an easier and swifter transfer of licences when, for example, one business was taken over by another or any part of a business was transferred to the ownership of another company. Perhaps the Minister could tell us, before we get to auctions, what the Radiocommunications Agency will be doing to ensure that the process of transferring licences will be made easier when businesses are bought and sold.
Finally, on the question of auctions, perhaps the Minister will tell us whether work is in hand in the Department, or perhaps being commissioned by the Radiocommunications Agency, to learn from some of the experiences of auctions to which a number of hon. Members have referred. There have been some bad experiences with auctions in this area and I wonder whether any research has been commissioned and whether the Government are now learning the lessons from experience elsewhere.
The Bill is not as it is described. It is not about the management of the spectrum. It is a rather old-fashioned Bill of the kind that you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, and I learned to recognise some time ago. This is a Bill about taxation. It is a Bill about arbitrary taxation, not least in the way in which clause 3 is drafted. The Bill is about unfair taxation, in the way that that taxation, left in the hands of the President of the Board of Trade, could operate. Saddest of all, it leaves the Department of Trade and Industry, once a great Department, simply as a bag carrier for the Treasury.
Mr. Tony Colman (Putney):
I understand that other hon. Members, certainly on the Government Benches, wish to discuss this important Bill further. One reason why I wish to speak is because of the importance of radio to the UK economy. It contributed some £13 billion to our gross domestic product in 1994, and more than 400,000 jobs. Those jobs have been growing at the rate of 1,000 a week and the contribution to the economy at the rate of £1 billion a year.
The hon. Member for Sevenoaks (Mr. Fallon) made an interesting speech. I was not in the Chamber earlier, but I watched the debate with interest. The right hon. Member for Wokingham (Mr. Redwood) made an extraordinary contribution. It was one of the most extraordinary outbursts that I have heard in my short time in the House from an Opposition Front-Bench spokesman. He made an extraordinary attack which had nothing to do with the Bill but, as another hon. Member said, everything to do with his own rather extraordinary state in the Commons. Perhaps we should draw a veil over that. However, I commend the hon. Member for Sevenoaks for his suggestions and his apparent general support for the Bill.
That support is shared by the Federation of Communication Services, the trade body that covers those organisations affected by the Bill. There is also support from the four major mobile phone companies--Orange, Vodafone, Cellnet and Mercury. They have had every opportunity to suggest changes to the Bill, but they have not done so and we have seen general support for the Bill.
What has been requested is more consultation. I was pleased to hear my hon. Friend the Minister talk about the setting up of the spectrum management advisory group, adding to the consultation which is already included in clause 6. As my hon. Friend said, that clause refers to a range of consultations that will have to take place under the legislation, on top of which will be this important advisory group, giving impartial advice on strategy, allocations of the spectrum and policy. I welcome that as a way forward and a fulfilment of the new Government's pledge to listen to business and to all the interests affected by legislation.
The hon. Member for South Dorset (Mr. Bruce), who I understand is absent pursuing matters outside the House, made an interesting speech. In particular, he commended
the setting up of the spectrum management advisory group. He suggested that it was important that independent people should be appointed to that group. In winding up, I hope that the Minister will support that. It should not be made up simply of the crowd currently involved, but should comprise potential newcomers, those interested in this huge new industry that will be so important to Britain. In particular, the hon. Gentleman suggested that it should comprise the new entries, the people who at the moment are planning for their future.
If it does not make the hon. Gentleman blush on reading this in Hansard tomorrow, I congratulate him on his excellent contribution, which showed a more significant and analytical approach than that of the right hon. Member for Wokingham.
I also strongly support the views of my hon. Friend the Member for Ilford, North (Ms Perham). In particular, I share her concerns for the taxi industry. She may feel that that industry has a tremendous dominance in north Ilford, but I can assure her that her concerns are shared certainly in Putney and, I think, in many other areas of London and in many other conurbations in Britain.
It is important that the way in which we go forward on the matter of the auction should not militate against smaller industries and businesses. I hope that when my hon. Friend the Minister for Small Firms, Trade and Industry replies, she will take account of the small taxi operator. I understand that already they can pay up to 30 times more than the major telecommunication operations, and that should not be so.
I also support other hon. Members' concerns for the fishing industry. A cousin of mine fishes for crab and lobster in the North sea. His boat is at Sheringham and his only means of communication is his mobile phone. I have previously told the House that I come from Norfolk and I am proud of it, and the fishermen of the North sea are important to the local communities. Like the taxi drivers, they should not be priced out of the market by this legislation. That is an extremely important part of the Bill.
The concessionary fees arrangement is important to our future. Services which at the moment receive concessionary fee arrangements, such as the ambulance services, are crucial to the delivery of health care. I have already mentioned the fishermen of the North sea and it is crucial that the lifeboat service, in its use of the wavelengths, is not priced out of the market. Again, I ask my hon. Friend to give assurances on that.
As a business man, I very much welcome the certainty provided by clause 4. It will provide enhanced security of tenure, which is desired by all business people in the telecommunications industry. I welcome also the reassurances given in this debate by my hon. Friend the Minister of State that there will be licence changes only on very rare occasions, such as when it is in the interests of national security or in compliance with Community obligations or international agreements to do so. There will be situations in which a person may wish to give up a licence, but the House should nevertheless applaud the enhanced security of tenure provided by clause 4.
I am extremely pleased that in clause 5 we are considering how grants might promote efficient spectrum management. My hon. Friend the Member for East Ham
(Mr. Timms) mentioned the need to look after the Community Media Association, which is very concerned to ensure that future spectrum use does not exclude community radio and community spectrum use. I should very much like community groups in my own constituency to be able to approach the Secretary of State under clause 5 for grants to develop facilities.
Clause 6 deals with consultation, which I have already dealt with at length. I should like, however, to reiterate the need to take account of consumer interest--which was mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for East Ham and by the hon. Member for Sevenoaks and is a matter of concern for hon. Members on both sides of the House. Assurances were given in another place that consumer interests were covered by the Telecommunications Act 1984. However, I ask the Minister to reassure the House that pledges to consider consumers' interests will be copper-bottomed.
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