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Mr. Bowen Wells (Hertford and Stortford): That is because GDP went down under Labour.
Clare Short: No, it did not. Sadly, the figure came down to 0.27 per cent. under the previous Administration. We shall reverse that and reinstate our proud record.
Mr. Wells: The Select Committee on International Development looks forward to welcoming the right hon. Lady next Thursday for a long discussion on such matters. As she knows, I object strongly to the ATP and have
always opposed it. I am delighted that she has ended it. Will she join me in a campaign against countries that subsidise their exports and get work that would otherwise come to this country? It would be a disaster if she did not join me in a campaign--and, indeed, lead the campaign with the enthusiasm that only she can provide--to get Germany, France and Japan, the three countries which are also difficult on debt issues, to abandon ATP with her, so that jobs for our people are not put in jeopardy.
Are the mixed credits that the right hon. Lady is proposing expected to take the place of ATP? Will she assure the House that any money saved on ATP will not be taken away from the aid budget?
Clare Short:
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. I very much welcome the Select Committee inquiry. I want our commitments to be deeply shared across the country to strengthen any Government's endeavours. The work of the Select Committee will help us with that and I look forward to giving evidence.
I share the hon. Gentleman's objective of preventing other countries from misusing their aid budget. That is why it is right for us not to untie our remaining tied aid unilaterally. Wherever possible, we shall source in developing countries, but then use our willingness and the OECD campaign, which has given a good lead, to get multilateral untying so that dubious motives are removed from everybody's aid programme. If we untied unilaterally, French and German companies would be able to come into our aid programme, which would be a nonsensical way to make progress. I repeat the commitment in the White Paper to do everything that we can to ensure multilateral untying and to use our influence in any way that we can.
There is no question of the money that went into aid and trade being taken away from the aid programme. It will be redirected to the objectives that we have outlined today.
While I look forward to discussing it with the Select Committee, I am certain that under the conditions laid down in the White Paper, there is no risk that mixed credits could be abused. If we can help in developing countries by, say, paying for feasibility studies or initial costs to draw a large-scale investment into, for example, rural transport where the poor cannot get their produce to market, it will be a proper use of the aid budget. The OECD, however, has a test. It must be proved that such assisted projects could not have worked commercially. It has been tightening up on that. I agree with the hon. Gentleman's objectives and will happily work with him on them.
Mr. Robin Corbett (Birmingham, Erdington):
May I warmly congratulate my right hon. Friend and our Government on the publication of the White Paper and the setting of measurable targets on which an annual report will be given to the House? May I especially welcome the moves to ensure that all pupils learn more about development issues so that they will be better able than many of their parents to understand the importance of such issues in a shrinking world?
Clare Short:
I am grateful to my hon. Friend. The beauty of the targets is that they are internationally agreed. If we could get the international system to work
I agree about young people, in our country and world wide. If we do not make progress, the dangerous future will be their adulthood. If we do not make progress on poverty elimination, when today's little children are my age, they will be living with catastrophe. We owe it to them to ensure that they understand what is going on in the world and how to make progress. We are committed to driving that forward, and to considering how we can bring better materials into the national curriculum and teacher training so that we will have a generation that can take command of its future and understand how important all this is for them.
Mr. Andrew Rowe (Faversham and Mid-Kent):
I wish to make two small points. First, does the right hon. Lady agree that in all the talk about Government- to-Government conversation, development is increasingly seen as responding to the needs expressed by the poor themselves? That is fundamental.
Secondly, I have not yet seen the White Paper, but I hope that it deals with the fact that of the poorest of the poor, the 5 or 6 per cent. who are disabled are unquestionably at most disadvantage. Will the Secretary of State give a commitment not to forget them?
Clare Short:
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. The point about Government-to-Government conversation, where we can get it and where we are dealing with good Governments committed to poverty eradication, is that we can work with a country that wants to introduce universal primary education by giving support for teacher training, books and administrative systems. We could perhaps help finance departments to get rid of wasteful spending and redirect money and so create sustainable, long-term universal services. That is the best way to work, but it works only if the people of the country involved know the plans, own them and are able to participate and push their Government forward. We get success in countries that are committed, and where public opinion understands the commitment and pushes the Government to make greater progress.
The hon. Gentleman is right. Poverty makes people ill, and sickness makes people poorer. That is the tragedy of people without health care who live with dirty, polluted water and who are constantly sick. They and the disabled become poorer and poorer. Giving them the chance to have a decent livelihood is key to eradicating poverty. Without that, people with sickness and disability will remain on the margins of human existence and we will not achieve what we must achieve. I give him that assurance.
Mr. Tam Dalyell (Linlithgow):
My right hon. Friend said rightly in her statement that conflict was a catastrophe for the planet. In those circumstances, is there in her Department a paper on the effects of sanctions, which have devastating results for the poorest people and
Clare Short:
My hon. Friend is right. The world history of conflicts since the end of the cold war reveals that they have been concentrated in poor countries. They are caused by poverty, and those conflicts, in turn, create poverty and instability, which affect civilians and create refugees. As a key to development, we must prevent that and build people's life possibilities instead of their descending into war.
As my hon. Friend knows, and as I have said to him before, I am keen that we should do what we can to refine the sanctions instrument so that its hits the elites more. My Department is doing work on that; it is difficult, but there is room for more progress. I hope that we can take that work forward, and I expect him to continue to prod me about it.
Sir David Madel (South-West Bedfordshire):
Is the right hon. Lady aware that the former Prime Minister of Israel, Shimon Peres, is constantly warning that a poor middle east is a very dangerous middle east? With that statement in mind, when the Government assume the presidency of the European Union, will they step up efforts with our partners to get clean proper water supplies to Gaza and the west bank? Without the lifting of living standards from the bare minimum in those two areas, the agreements between Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organisation simply will not stick.
Clare Short:
I share the hon. Gentleman's concern. We are all desperately worried about the middle east peace process which is not going forward as rapidly as we would wish. He will be aware that we have considerable programmes in Gaza and on the west bank, but the constant closure of the borders and people's inability to work are reducing income levels and creating yet more poverty and desperation there. I can give the hon. Gentleman our commitment to continue to work on the west bank and in Gaza and, as a Government, to do everything we can, particularly during our EU presidency, to bolster the peace process.
Mr. Dale Campbell-Savours (Workington):
May I positively welcome my right hon. Friend's White Paper? As she will know, over the years, the British Government have sponsored many projects which are not good. They have not been properly evaluated by outside contractors or, indeed, by departmental people when they have been required to do so. Will she re-examine project evaluation arrangements within her Department?
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