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7.7 pm
Sir Richard Body (Boston and Skegness): I thought I heard the hon. Member for Harlow (Mr. Rammell) say that no reasonable person could oppose the treaty. If that is so, perhaps he would agree that no reasonable person would speak of a European Community--still less of Europe--unless the institutions being established in its name were trying sincerely to embrace the whole of Europe.
The hon. Gentleman would agree that Europe consists of some 40 states. It is my dream that the European Community should one day be able to embrace them all, but surely the hon. Gentleman would agree that the treaty will not do that. We should judge this treaty or any other concerning the European Community according to whether it will make it easier or harder to enlarge the Community, so that it can truly speak of Europe and unite all Europe.
The vision began a long time ago, and at that time I shared the vision and supported the European Community in the hope that it would bring the countries of western Europe together so that there should never be another war. Surely the task now should be to bring east and western Europe together, so that we can be a truly united continent, and not suffer the consequences that might follow if any kind of cold war should re-emerge.
When we debated--as we did at great length--the Maastricht treaty, we heard much about the principle of subsidiarity. Those of us who were a little sceptical about it were told to wait and see. We were assured that everything would be all right, and that we would be able to claw back many of the powers that had gone to Brussels. We were even assured that about 25 per cent. of the Community law would be repealed or could be amended.
I stand to be corrected, but I do not think that in the past few years any of the Community law has been repealed or amended as a result of the Maastricht treaty. It has been a disappointment to us. Some of us hoped that, when negotiations took place on the Amsterdam treaty, we could put teeth into the principle of subsidiarity. Surely it is self-evident that there can be no hope of a true European Community unless the principle of subsidiarity is made to work.
Instead of the principle being made to work at Amsterdam, we have a protocol, and paragraph 2 invokes the doctrine of acquis communautaire, which, as we all know, means that competence once given to Brussels cannot be taken away from Brussels. It means that all the powers that we handed over at Maastricht, in addition to all those that we handed over in the original treaty of Rome, and now further powers in the treaty of Amsterdam, cannot come back.
I ask the hon. Member for Harlow to consider the effect that that will have on the countries of eastern Europe that sincerely wish to join the European Community. It will not make it easier for them; it will make it much more difficult. I beg the hon. Gentleman to look again at the Maastricht treaty and see how far it goes and the extent to which it could impinge on the policies that so many eastern European countries are trying to pursue. He will see that those cannot be reconciled.
The protocol is bad enough, but declaration 43 contains some sort of definition of subsidiarity.
Mr. Casale:
Does the hon. Gentleman know of a single country in eastern Europe that is opposed to the Amsterdam treaty?
Sir Richard Body:
I doubt whether the Governments of those countries have got round to reading the treaty, but when they do, I have no doubt--if it is not presumptuous to say so--that they will agree with what I said. We shall see.
Declaration 43 gives a definition of subsidiarity. It states that member states will be responsible for administering Community law. That is a kind of subsidiarity, but not the kind that we argued about in the Maastricht debates, which we thought meant that individual countries could do those things that they are best able to do.
Let me give an example: fishing, which was discussed at Amsterdam. If anyone believes that the fishermen on the east coast of England and Scotland who go out to fish in the North sea are not capable of agreeing to a policy laid down by our own Government, as was the case in the past, to preserve the fish stocks, the fishermen in my constituency could explain that, if the present common fisheries policy goes on, they have few prospects of being able to earn a livelihood in a few years.
I was glad that the hon. and learned Member for North-East Fife (Mr. Campbell), who spoke for the Liberal Democrats and who has fishermen in his constituency, went so far as to say that he agrees with all European Community legislation. That includes all the regulations that constitute the common fisheries policy--I hope that the fishermen in his constituency will appreciate that view. The next time the hon. and learned Gentleman meets those fishermen, he will no doubt explain what an excellent idea the common fisheries policy is.
The declaration superimposed on the protocol is not only a denial of the principle of subsidiarity that we hoped to see, but strikes at the federal principle. Federalists will agree that we cannot have a federal system without meaningful subsidiarity. The Amsterdam treaty has resulted in a move towards a unitary state. That is much more dangerous than a federal system, and I think that we should be alert to that movement. Unless a subsequent treaty enshrines the principle of subsidiarity, makes it a working principle and puts some force behind it, there can be no hope of achieving the kind of European Community that Conservative Members wish to see: a Community that embraces many more countries in Europe and truly speaks for Europe.
7.11 pm
Mr. Roger Casale (Wimbledon):
On Monday, I had the pleasure of addressing the House in my maiden speech as a Londoner, and today I make no apologies for speaking as both a British patriot and a European. I listened carefully to the speech by the hon. Member for Tiverton and Honiton (Mrs. Browning), who referred in one breath to "Europe" and, in the next, to "over there". I do not wish to give geography lessons in the House, but I must point out that, although Europe is over there, it is over here also. We are part of Europe, and I am happy to identify myself with Europe and with the European continent.
My point is that those three identities--being a Londoner, a Briton and a European--are not incompatible, but complement each other. That reflects today's reality: we are citizens of our locality, of our region, our country and of Europe as a whole. That reality is also reflected in the Amsterdam treaty itself.
British interests--those of the British people and of Britain as a whole--are protected by the treaty. The end of the opt-out on social policy secures the interests of British working people by guaranteeing them basic minimum rights and freedoms at their place of work. As a condition of access to the wider European market, the treaty also sets in motion a process by which those freedoms and rights can be enhanced progressively. As it does so, in partnership not only with our European neighbours at a national level but through the process of a social dialogue between employers' federations and trade unions, we can be sure that social progress will not be bought at the cost of our competitiveness--indeed, our competitiveness will be enhanced. That is why I believe Commissioner Leon Brittan who, in an article in The Daily Telegraph today, said:
Anchoring it in the Amsterdam treaty means that the social dialogue will be extended to atypical workers--part-time and temporary workers--who will also feel the benefit of those rights and freedoms. That will improve the quality of life of thousands of people in my constituency, especially many of those who have young families and who are in temporary or part-time work. They will benefit from the social dialogue and from the right to parental leave that is enshrined in the social chapter. Those are some of the first fruits of Britain's accession to the social chapter.
Those Conservative Members who believe that what is in the interests of British working people automatically cannot be in the interests of Britain as a whole should ask themselves whether they are failing in their representative function in some way. Perhaps they should reflect on the results of the 1 May election, which demonstrate that point quite well.
Mr. Keith Simpson (Mid-Norfolk):
I do not wish to be rude to the hon. Gentleman or to use unparliamentary
"I therefore consider that the social chapter no longer poses the serious threat"--
implicitly to jobs--
"that it once did."
Through the social dialogue, Britain is anchored to a rolling democratic debate about the future of Europe's economy and society. That debate will explore what kind of Europe we want to live in: a Europe of low-value, low-paid, low-skilled jobs or a Europe that develops the resourcefulness and potential of its people to the full.
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