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7.36 pm
Sir Teddy Taylor (Rochford and Southend, East): As with all the past debates on treaties such as this, it is interesting to note--or would be, if we were allowed to look--that the Public Gallery is largely empty and the Press Gallery totally empty.
Let me say--particularly to the new Labour Member who has just spoken, the hon. Member for Wimbledon (Mr. Casale)--that I hope that it will be borne in mind that all these treaties have gone through with the same assurances and the same optimism on the part of those on the Front Bench. The one thing that encourages Conservative Members is seeing the large range of new, talented, able and patriotic Conservative Members who have just arrived in the House, and who, I think, will for the first time win a new and stimulating battle for democracy and patriotism.
Let me say this to those who have doubts about the optimism expressed by the Government. I wish that they would look through the assurances that were given about
all the earlier treaties. I well remember the treaty of Rome, many years ago: sadly, I had to resign from Mr. Heath's Government, weakening it amazingly by so doing. We were told at that time that all that the treaty achieved was free trade and friendship. There was no question of taking away our liberty, no question of taking away our freedom, no question of its costing us--and, at least if we sat around the table like sensible and adult people, we would be able to change some of the small problems that Europe had, such as the common agricultural policy. We were told to be positive and optimistic, as the Foreign Secretary is always telling us to be; but, in fact, the arrangement turned out to be something wholly different.
Then we had the Single European Act. Again, we were told that the Act was not like the treaty of Rome at all. It was accepted at that time that the treaty of Rome had been a big thing, but a former Prime Minister, who I think is now in the House of Lords--a delightful lady--assured me in her own office that I should not worry about the majority voting powers, which she said could be used only for free trade. I remember her pointing at me--as she often did--and saying, "Now, Teddy, you are in favour of free trade." I said, "Yes." She said, "I am in favour of free trade, and the only thing that the majority voting powers do is facilitate free trade in Europe." That did not entirely prove to be the case, because the Single European Act constituted a massive transfer of power.
Then we had the Maastricht treaty. I am afraid that some of our older colleagues, who are not here tonight, voted for it--through a misunderstanding, no doubt. The plain fact is that we now know that the Maastricht treaty was a substantial treaty, although we were told that it was not. At that time, a Cabinet Minister kindly explained it to me in the Tea Room. He said, "Teddy, there are good things and bad things in the Maastricht treaty," and added that the good things applied to us whereas, because of the determination and courage of the then Prime Minister, we were exempt from the bad things. Sadly, it did not work out that way.
I caution the Minister, who is obviously optimistic and patriotic at the same time. I ask him please to remember that the same things have been said about all the treaties. We are always told that there is nothing much in them: "There are some nice things, so for goodness' sake let's be positive and constructive."
The Minister is obviously a person of ability and will be around for a long time. He should realise that every Prime Minister has started in the same way. They say, "Unlike my predecessor, I will be positive. I will sit round the table and co-operate with our European friends and will get the bad things changed." After they find out that that does not work, they become Euro-sceptic. I do not want to bash the Government, but I am scared that we are going through the same process again. Every time we have a new Prime Minister, we give another load of power and responsibility to Europe, and we all suffer as a consequence.
We were told that the treaty of Rome was vital for the improvement of Britain's trade. With the help of the staff in the Library, who are more truthful than party politicians tend to be, I obtained detailed figures on what has happened since we began signing these treaties. Has our trade with Europe greatly improved? The official figures may horrify some new Members, although most of them will be aware of them already. The deficit in our trade with Europe since we joined that organisation has been
more than £100 billion. Before we joined the EEC, we often had a positive balance of trade, but since we have joined we have had the horrendous loss of more than £100 billion.
We were told that the contributions were being sorted out; that we were to get big repayments; that things would be better. I asked the Library for the official figures. They may shock people with a number of children. We have had to pay into Europe £1,500 each. I happen to be a normal person with a delightful wife and three children, so for us the figure is £7,500. We have handed that money to Europe, and some of it has come back largely to be used for silly things such as the destruction of food. More money is wasted, while we pour a great deal of cash into Europe.
We also have the common agricultural policy. Although I would never question anyone's integrity, I sometimes worry when Ministers--inadvertently, I am sure--give figures for what the CAP is costing expressed in ecu when the pound is weak and in pounds when the pound is strong.
Mr. MacShane:
It will be the euro soon.
Sir Teddy Taylor:
The hon. Gentleman should not laugh. I am sure that many poor people in his constituency need help from the Government, whether Tory or Labour. What do they think about the fact that, because of the mad Euro-policies that have been adopted this year, £1,200 million has been spent on growing high-class tobacco in Greece, which has then been dumped on the third world or destroyed. That is an awful lot of money. With £1,200 million I could do an awful lot for the hon. Gentleman's constituents and others. The arrogant way in which he deals with these matters, smiling and laughing at stories of spending, is shameful democracy. I would say the same to any Conservative Member. It is not funny. We should all be ashamed of the fact that hundreds of millions of pounds are wasted on the destruction of food simply to maintain high prices.
We should be careful about spreading more power under the treaties. I am sure that the Foreign Secretary would accept that the Amsterdam treaty contains less than the Commission sought. The difficulty that Governments face every time is that many proposals are made and we battle hard to get some of them removed, so there are fewer than we started with. In view of the amount of unemployment, misery, waste, extravagance and fraud in Europe, at some stage a United Kingdom Government should say, "Not one more treaty. Not one more addition of power to this ridiculous enterprise". We must simply say no. If the consequence is that other member countries say that they do not want Britain any more, we shall have to put up with it.
The Government have decided to adopt the social chapter. That has been referred to as giving people additional rights. I appeal to hon. Members to think about what will happen if it goes wrong. What will happen if we pass laws that turn out to destroy and not safeguard jobs? What the blazes could we do about it? The answer is nothing. We have seen the death of democracy, because laws have been passed about which we can do nothing. The basic flaw is that, if we hand over powers and they are used in Europe, we cannot undo them.
There is also the employment charter. Given the misery and massive unemployment in almost all the other countries of the European Union, why on earth should we add to our problems by inflicting on this country the policies that they have inflicted on themselves?
Many decisions taken by majority voting will be damaging. The Foreign Secretary referred to just one: it is tiny. Article 13, formerly article 6a, on page 138 of the treaty, worries the Christian Church, employers and many other people. The Foreign Secretary said that it would allow the Council to introduce new policies to combat discrimination based on racial and ethnic origin and disability, and that that was important. He did not complete the article because of the shortage of time. It refers to discrimination based on sex, racial origin, religion, disability, age or sexual orientation. What the blazes does "sexual orientation" mean? I do not know, and the Foreign Secretary obviously does not know. The only people who know are the people in the European Court of Justice. Could the European Court of Justice make decisions on this matter?
Christian Action, Research and Education wrote to the Government to express its concern. It appreciated that these powers are new, but it wanted to know what would happen in the meantime, and whether the article could be used for actions in the European Court of Justice. It received a lovely letter from the Foreign Office dated 7 July 1997, saying that, although the writer
We have previously been told that nothing would happen and that no cases would emerge, but we have had some appalling decisions. The Grogan judgment in 1991 had a devastating effect on the Republic of Ireland, and the decision on Cornwall in 1994 concerned someone who had changed sex. If the European Court of Justice wants, as I believe it does, to change the decisions we make in the employment of people in our Church schools, in churches and elsewhere, our law will be thrown out of the window and there will be nothing that we can do about it.
The Government should have tried to do something about the European Court of Justice. Everyone can understand the need for a court to interpret the law, but that is totally different from a court that seems to be concerned only with extending the powers of the European Union and its institutions. It is a political court, although not biased towards one party or another. Its sole objective seems to be to extend the powers of the European Union.
We should have done something about the agricultural policy, which is the biggest protection racket ever invented by man. It creates the most appalling surpluses and the most dreadful expenditure. The agricultural community, which forms a large part of my new constituency, is rather embarrassed about it, because it appreciates that, if we put all the money on a British-made aeroplane and dropped £10 notes at random, people would be much better off. Why could not the Government do something about it, given that new powers are being created?
The previous Government and the new Government have told us repeatedly that reforms are coming, and that there will be cuts in spending. I remember the last cuts and reductions that were coming. We had to give compensation in lieu, and area payments were introduced.
Those payments were enormous and, in two cases, the prices never fell, but increased. It has become the largest protection racket ever invented. Someone must have the courage to face up to it. We know that there is no agreement in Europe to do that, because all our democratic institutions are terrified of the agricultural community. Most hon. Members would rather sweep European business aside, not talk about it and not attend debates, but we have got to do something. We do something when Europe wants either more powers or more cash.
My biggest worry is that, because of the ever-increasing power that we are giving to Europe and because of the Government's new determination on the single currency, people are not thinking through where we are going. There is not the slightest doubt that, in view of this further significant transfer of sovereignty, and if we enter a single market, it will be the effective death of democracy, in this country and in others. What should worry us most is that, around the world, not one artificial federation without democracy has survived. They always break up, usually with violence. In addition, no independent country that I am aware of exists without its own currency or the control of its economy.
We often try to reassure ourselves with slogans. The slogan of the previous Government was that they were opposed to a federal Europe. It was the silliest slogan that I had ever heard, because a federal Europe would have been infinitely stronger, better and more democratic than what we have now. At least there would be some guarantee for member states' powers. We are rapidly going towards a single European state without democracy, which, on the basis of every previous experiment with the harmonisation of currencies, will create unemployment and misery.
"would not expect litigation to arise",
one could never rule it out.
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