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7.5 pm
Mr. Alan Campbell (Tynemouth): I am grateful for the opportunity to make a brief contribution to the debate, albeit as a new member of the Public Accounts Committee commenting on reports of a previous Committee. Before I do that, I, too, pay tribute to the role of Sir John Bourn and his staff in providing support to Committee members. New members in particular benefited from that support. I also thank the Clerk to the Committee.
We have, quite rightly, heard a great deal about the need to scrutinise the Executive. In last year's debate, my right hon. Friend the Member for Swansea, West (Mr. Williams) spoke about the "redefining of ministerial accountability". I should like to comment on that against the background of enormous change in public service and, in particular, to say something about the growth in the number of public service regulators.
Regulators have become something of an industry in their own right. There are now some 134 regulators employing 14,000 staff, at a cost of about £766 million of taxpayers' money. Recent research by the London School of Economics stated:
My comments refer almost exclusively to the 20th report, dated 17 March, on the workings of the Office of the National Lottery. The report contains
some serious criticisms of the role of Oflot and, in particular, of the role of the director general. Some of those criticisms arise from weaknesses in the original licence provisions and from confusion over whose role it was to intervene and to regulate.
For example, the report draws attention to several instances when interest from accounts went to Camelot rather than to the players' trust. It draws attention to the two-day delay in paying in receipts from retailers, which meant that £420,000 in interest went to Camelot rather than to the players' trust. Similarly, the interest paid from the annual prize shortfall, worth some £6 million in 1995, again went to Camelot rather than to the distribution fund. I understand that that was to be put right on 1 April this year, but it is interesting to note that that decision was taken only after a recommendation by the PAC.
The clear Treasury view is that such matters are the responsibility of the director general. If there is still confusion, it must be cleared up. There may be confusion in the original licensing provision, but the report makes further criticism of the director general and the way in which he sought to apply his powers. For example, he failed to give sufficient priority to the compliance programme, although I am again pleased to note that after the PAC's criticisms, work on most of the programmes is under way. The report comments on the director general's lack of vigour in ensuring that money was paid into the players' trust, which resulted in losses to the trust of £500,000. The trust's difficulties stem partly from the director general's decision not to get involved in the detail of the trust.
The report concludes that the director general's approach was
The most worrying aspect of the report has already been touched on by other right hon. and hon. Members--the lack of access for the National Audit Office to Camelot's records. The NAO was unable to satisfy itself that payments to the distribution fund had been correctly made. Unless the NAO can negotiate sufficient access to do its work, it cannot advise Parliament properly. That is unacceptable. I welcome the fact that the Government are considering ways of accessing Camelot's records.
The Committee notes that the lottery has raised substantial sums for good causes. We all acknowledge that. I hope that we shall get a sports hall development at Marden Bridge in my constituency, which will transform sport for schoolchildren there. However, that does not remove the need for vigorous examination and criticism, when warranted. It also does not excuse the lack of a more proactive and positive approach from the director general. He has an important role in facilitating parliamentary accountability. The report acknowledges his crucial role in maintaining the integrity of the lottery and reassuring the public.
I welcome the action of the Department for Culture, Media and Sport and its intention to transform the national
lottery into the people's lottery. If it is to be a people's lottery, it must have public confidence. The public buy the tickets and keep the lottery going, and their interests must be paramount. The regulator must promote the public interest, not the operator's interest. There are lessons in that for all regulators. It may well mean making operations more transparent. If it means giving regulators more powers to be able to discharge their work better, so be it.
Mr. Phil Hope (Corby):
I congratulate the right hon. Member for Haltemprice and Howden (Mr. Davis) on his elevation to Chairman of the Committee. I look forward to serving under his stewardship. As a new member of the Public Accounts Committee, I have found the first few meetings most enlightening, reinforcing the importance of democratic scrutiny of Government spending. I add my congratulations to all former members of the Committee on the determination and rigour with which they have exercised their duties. Preparing for and participating in the work of the Committee requires a good deal of time. The value of its work can be seen in the Committee's reports. I add my tribute to the former Chairman, my right hon. Friend the Member for Ashton-under-Lyne (Mr. Sheldon), for his superb leadership--an example that we all aspire to follow.
The reports show the vital role of the Comptroller and Auditor General and the Public Accounts Committee in holding the Government to account for their performance and ensuring value for money. I have chosen my top four reports from the 25 before us. I wish that I had been here to take part in those debates. My No. 1 was the second report, revealing incompetence in the delays and cost overruns in completing the British library--a tale of appalling mismanagement. The 16th report exposes the billions of pounds of excess profits made by water and electricity companies following privatisation. The 19th report reveals the intolerable irregular relocation payments made by the former Yorkshire regional health authority. The 22nd report shows that the failure to ensure comprehensive valuations of the British Rail maintenance depots before their sale resulted in a bad deal for the taxpayer.
I hope that the new Committee, with many new members, including me, will continue the excellent work that has been done in the past. In the four or five hearings so far, we have exposed gross inefficiency in the work of the Child Support Agency, revealing that 85 per cent. of its maintenance payment balances are wrong, causing great distress and misery. We have also uncovered some appalling judgments, such as the Inland Revenue's decision not to implement a £20,000 computer database scheme, leading directly to the loss of several millions of pounds--if not hundreds of millions--of tax revenue from employers.
Given the benefits to the public purse of past and current PAC scrutiny, I add my voice to those of other right hon. and hon. Members who have asked for increased access for the Comptroller and Auditor General--and therefore for the PAC and Parliament--to follow and scrutinise public money wherever it goes.
In particular, we should increase his powers over and access to executive non-departmental public bodies, such as the Housing Corporation and the Legal Aid Board.
All local public bodies funded at arm's length should be included in the Comptroller and Auditor General's remit. That includes the further and higher education institutions, training and enterprise councils and, in particular, housing associations. We should ensure that we can scrutinise the final recipients of Government and European Community grants, including farmers, companies and voluntary bodies. We need to scrutinise contractors when Government functions are under contract to the private sector. We need to ensure that Railtrack and the rail operating companies, which are regulated by the Office of Passenger Rail Franchising, are properly scrutinised by the Comptroller and Auditor General. As my hon. Friend the Member for Tynemouth (Mr. Campbell) said, we must ensure that Camelot, regulated by the Office of the National Lottery, is properly brought under parliamentary scrutiny.
"It is an industry which seems to have grown topsy-like with no overall rationalisation or consistent practice".
Furthermore, it would appear--I am not making a party political point--that the previous Government saw the increase in the number of regulators, but failed to ensure that the regulators themselves were properly regulated. Clearly, regulators cover diverse and often unrelated areas, but they are nevertheless linked by their obligation and duty to seek the highest possible standards for the public.
"less active and vigorous than that adopted by other regulators, such as the Directors General who regulate the electricity, gas, water and telecommunications services."
I hope that he takes that on board. I believe that there was a call in last year's debate for his resignation. If my comments fall short of that, I hope that he does not take it as a vote of confidence.
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