| Previous Section | Index | Home Page |
12.58 pm
Mr. Graham Brady (Altrincham and Sale, West): I cannot help but think, hearing the remarks of the hon. Member for Great Grimsby (Mr. Mitchell), that if the Government were to introduce a Bill proposing the slaughter of the first born, it would enjoy more support from Labour Members than does the proposal that we are debating. I have not heard a single Labour Member support the Minister.
I may be the third non-lawyer to speak in the debate. I can at least claim to be the first from the right side of the Pennines, which is something that I can be proud of.
I was nearly a lawyer and I suppose that I should declare that as an interest. I took a law degree, but at that juncture I decided that it was not a bearable proposition to enter such an unpopular profession and I resolved instead to enter the House of Commons. As I am not a lawyer I am not used to being paid by the minute, and as I am not a journalist I am not used to being paid by the word, so I will be brief. [Hon. Members: "Hear, hear."] Thank you. I am tempted to quit while I am ahead, but I will continue.
I wish to argue the consumer interest and the interest of my constituents. That leads me to support the Government's attempts to streamline the criminal justice system, to lower costs and to speed up the process; I wish
them well in that. However, I am extremely worried about the Government's proposals for legal aid. There are several significant reasons why they will cause problems for the Government and for the people whom legal aid currently helps.
The problem with our current legal aid system is that justice is open only to the very poor and the very rich. That is unacceptable and a scandal, and the Government are right to seek to tackle that problem.
My concern about the Government's proposal is that although by opening up the contingency fee basis to the majority of people, it will seek to redress the inability of the vast majority of the public to have access to the legal system, it also seeks to snatch away the benefits that are currently available to help the poorest people, the most disadvantaged people in the country, to have access to the legal aid system.
The conditional fee may extend access to justice to the vast majority of people on middle incomes, although one must bear in mind the fact that the likelihood of success will probably be a major factor in determining whether each case is brought under these proposals. Many hon. Members have mentioned the insurance element of the proposals, which is a very serious problem, especially in medical negligence cases, where the cost of insurance can be very high indeed. That does not by any means guarantee that justice will become more accessible.
If greater access results, that is to be welcomed. If the proposals, by withdrawing the legal support that the poorest people currently enjoy, reduce access, that should cause all hon. Members concern.
The hon. Member for Wyre Forest (Mr. Lock) referred to the possibility of cherry-picking taking place if a twin-track approach were adopted. That argument is worth exploring further because the difficulty with the Government's proposal as it stands is that cherry-picking will take place anyway. Effectively, lawyers and insurance companies will determine whether it is possible for an individual to pursue his case in the courts. Lawyers will cherry-pick. They will take the cases on which they will make the most money and the cases that they believe that they are most likely to win. However, that cannot be used as an argument for withdrawing support from the people who cannot afford to provide legal representation for themselves, and it is inconsistent to argue that one cannot have a safety net--effectively, a benefit system--because one wants to avoid cherry-picking.
Alarmingly, the proposal is consonant with other measures that the Government are taking, such as seeking to introduce tuition fees for higher education. There is a close analogy. The Government will argue that they are giving access to a system by introducing a new charging mechanism, but, at the same time, they are withdrawing the support that ensures that people at the bottom end of the scale have access.
In withdrawing maintenance grants for students, just as in withdrawing legal aid for civil cases, the Government are snatching away support from those who are least able to provide for themselves. That will have a damaging effect on access to the civil justice system. We have already seen the devastating effect of the introduction of fees on access to higher education.
The proposals need to be properly debated. We have had a good debate this morning, although I share the concern expressed by the hon. Member for Great Grimsby
that too many lawyers and too few people outside the profession have spoken. We have had a good debate, but this should not be the end of the matter. We need proper consultation on the proposals, which have enormous implications for the administration of justice.
The consultation period will run until 1 April, when the proposals will be introduced. That cannot be deemed to be proper consultation. There is not enough time either for consultation to be carried out properly or for proposals to be drawn up in the light of that consultation. I call for a longer period of consultation and for the Government to give greater thought to the proposals. The proposals are largely untested. It would be sensible to run the two systems concurrently--to maintain the legal aid net for those who need it while extending trials to see how the contingency fee system will work and to measure the effect of insurance premiums on access to justice.
The conditional fee--I emphasise an earlier point--will inevitably mean that the system will lean towards larger and more specialist firms. That is a cause for concern. One of the most important aspects of providing proper legal advice across the country is the service given by small, local firms of solicitors. The danger with the proposals is that those firms will be hit. Small, general practices, especially in small towns, may no longer be viable. That does not mean merely that they will go out of business; nobody sheds many tears when a lawyer is put out of business. It also means that those towns lose the service that those practices have given. That should be most unwelcome and a major cause for concern.
I welcome the fast-track proposals and I wish them well. I hope that they will result in cheaper and quicker justice. I believe, however, that, in general, the proposals will have the opposite effect to that intended and that, far from widening access to justice, they will narrow it. If the Government believe that access to justice will be widened by the proposals, what provision are they making to expand the court service to take account of the increased number of cases that may be involved?
Ms Hazel Blears (Salford):
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, for calling me in this very important debate. I should say at the outset that I am a solicitor, although I am not currently practising because I believe that it is important to be a full-time Member of the House. I have experience of working both in private practice and in the public service as I was a solicitor for Manchester city council, specialising in education and employment matters. I have also been a member of the management committee of my local law centre for seven years, so it is fair to say that I have some experience of the variety of ways in which the legal aid system functions. I also add, for the benefit of Opposition Members, that the House is about to hear a speech by a Labour Member in favour of the proposals.
The proposals to reshape our civil justice system and to refocus the assistance provided by the public through the legal aid scheme will enable many more people, irrespective of their wealth, to enforce their legal rights. Access to justice for all was the overriding principle behind the establishment of the legal aid scheme. There was clear recognition that legal advice--and especially representation--was exclusive, expensive and out of the reach of many ordinary citizens. Over the years, eligibility limits have squeezed thousands of people out of the legal aid scheme, yet the bill has grown enormously and legal aid now costs almost £1.5 billion every year. It costs every taxpayer £57 a year to fund the legal aid scheme, yet fewer people are entitled to receive help from it. How can we possibly defend the status quo?
Quite naturally, there is immense public concern that the costs should not be allowed to spiral out of control but need to be shaped and targeted at areas of greatest legal need. We need to get one point absolutely clear at the outset: the changes are not about slashing legal aid, as was put about in the scaremongering headline of The Law Society's Gazette--I wish that lawyers would have a better regard for the truth in respect of this issue. There will be no cost cap on the fund, but there will be tighter control, the elimination of waste and duplication, increased efficiency, planning and organisation, fixed costs and certainty about precisely which legal services can be provided through the fund. I am surprised that Conservative Members are so opposed to efficiency and good management.
There has been an outcry among the profession, predicting that thousands of poorer people--how I hate that phrase and the patronising connotations that sometimes go with it--will be excluded from legal help. There has been much agonising about access to justice for the poor. I wonder why we always hear such expressions of concern and anguish whenever the income of solicitors and barristers is under discussion.
For years, solicitors in inner-city areas such as my constituency of Salford been encouraged to take on cases involving housing, employment, benefit advice and other issues that fundamentally threaten the comfort of people living in difficult circumstances--those who are beset by poverty, unemployment and, in many cases, are exploited by those more powerful than themselves. Many solicitors have been extremely reluctant to get involved in such cases as they are not considered attractive or profitable and often entail dealing with people with tremendous personal problems.
The legal issues involved in employment and housing are often extremely complex and require imagination and creativity to resolve satisfactorily. There are, of course, some dedicated solicitors who are driven by a desire to ensure that everyone's voice is heard and to achieve genuine justice. I am lucky to have in my constituency some of those solicitors and a law centre which has been of immense help to many people in Salford.
The refocusing of legal aid and the move to contracting with firms that specialise, have expertise and consistently produce high quality efficient work will enable us to encourage and reward lawyers who are genuinely committed to improving access to our legal system. We shall be able to fund them to develop more innovative services such as home visiting, telephone advice lines, plain English documentation that is easy to understand
and full explanatory advice so that clients truly feel part of the legal process rather than simply being on the receiving end of an unfathomable system.
The freeing up of millions of pounds of legal aid by the introduction of conditional fee agreements for the majority of claims will liberate funds which can then be directed at current gaps in provision. Sir Peter Middleton said in his report that once the budget is under control legal aid could be extended to
I would, however, add a note of caution. I share the many concerns of my hon. Friends about the costs of insurance in conditional fee cases. Many people on low incomes and benefits will find it difficult to raise the money to pay for insurance, so I should be grateful if the Minister would give further consideration to the funding of those items. It would be a real denial of justice if a genuine claim were to lie unpursued for want of the means to pay for insurance.
I turn to one other area of the proposals which I believe will be a genuine step forward in obtaining real value from the legal aid fund and ensuring that the kind of legal services available properly reflect the needs of local people.
In the north-west, we have been extremely lucky in recent years to have had the north-western legal services committee operating across our region, consulting a wide range of groups and individuals about the types of legal service that are needed. In October last year, the north-west pilot project was completed and it was clear that its excellent work ought to be spread throughout England and Wales to ensure that the voice of local people could be heard in deciding priorities for funding legal services.
The regional legal services committees, which are to be established in every area, will be uniquely placed to collect data about legal need and where suppliers are and to identify crucial gaps in provision. They will advise the Legal Aid Board on appropriate contracts and have a key role in monitoring the impact of contracting, whether on advice and assistance, mediation, or whatever other work is subject to the contracting process. They will have a key role in monitoring quality. They can bring together solicitors firms, advice agencies, local authorities, courts, prisons and community groups to draw up co-ordinated plans so that duplication can be eliminated and waste cut out. We shall be planning our legal services and, in so doing, spending taxpayers' money much more wisely and effectively.
There will be a regional plan informed by the work of the committee and it will shape the provision of legal services. It will be able to innovate. There could be contracts for employment tribunal work, housing advice, top quality benefit and debt advice, education work and
representation. It opens up the prospect of doing new things that will be of immense benefit to people who are often unable to pursue justice for themselves. That is what legal aid was always intended to do. It may have lost its way in recent years, but the Government are determined to put it back on track.
The development of a community legal service, possibly with salaried lawyers, bringing together citizens advice bureaux, advice agencies, welfare rights advisers and trade union advisers--often experts on employment matters--holds exciting possibilities for increasing access to justice. Funding mediation and arbitration may help to reduce conflict between neighbours, which often causes grief and long-term damage to communities. There will, of course, be difficult decisions. If we are to have more litigants, we must ensure that they are armed with the knowledge and skills to pursue claims confidently and well. That may mean the provision of court-based advice services, which I ask my hon. Friend the Minister to consider.
"more widespread funding for advice agencies, Law Centres etc.; funding for alternative forms of dispute resolution (mediation, arbitration etc); direct financial help to litigants-in-person to cover the cost of, for example, experts reports, court fees and travel costs; and representation in appropriate cases before tribunals or at coroners' inquests."
What could be more important than providing legal representation at an employment tribunal for someone who has lost their job and been the subject of unfair dismissal? The right to work and the right to decent housing are fundamental rights in our society which are currently devoid of legal assistance and representation.
| Next Section
| Index | Home Page |