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9.30 pm
Ms Glenda Jackson: Although the amendments tabled by the hon. Member for Southwark, North and Bermondsey (Mr. Hughes) and the right hon. Member for Sutton Coldfield (Sir N. Fowler) argue strongly against each other, it was a pleasure to listen to both arguments being so succinctly presented in a dedicated way.
I turn first to the amendments tabled by the hon. Member for Southwark, North and Bermondsey. We are grateful for the tabling of the amendments. As they make clear, and as the speech of the hon. Member for Southwark, North and Bermondsey underlined in a particularly succinct manner, it is his desire to arrive at a consensus--that is essential--behind his call for an electoral convention. He listed in essence three points to which he wished the Committee to give due consideration. The first was a fair-voting system. The second was that, whatever system is devised, it should be inclusive. The third was on the issue of boundaries.
What became apparent in the presentation of the argument of the hon. Member for Southwark, North and Bermondsey was the infinite variety in London--not only a geographic or ethnic variety but one including gender dimensions. It is clearly of the utmost importance that the electoral systems that will be used to elect the mayor and members of the assembly are the most appropriate ones. Both the mayor and the assembly will need to command the support and confidence of the people of London in their infinite variety. More than that, the electoral system selected for the assembly will help to determine the kind of body that emerges.
We want an assembly that can act strategically, consider Londonwide issues, properly represent the wide range of communities across the city, and take decisions that are in the long-term interests of this great capital. The electoral system needs to reflect that, and to ensure that it produces people who are capable of performing the role that will be expected of assembly members.
It is because we recognised the crucial importance of electoral issues in making London's strategic authority effective that a whole chapter of the Green Paper was devoted to the complex issues involved. We asked seven specific questions on electoral issues.
Much reference has been made to the responses that have been received to that Green Paper and they are still being sifted and analysed. I can tell the Committee that they reveal both the significance that respondents attach to these matters and the very wide range of views and opinions that exist in this great metropolis. The Government intend to study all the responses that have been received. There is little point in consultation exercises if close attention is not paid to the opinions expressed, and the Government give a clear commitment to do so.
The proposals will properly be set out in the White Paper that will be published before the referendum next spring. Following a yes vote, the main Bill will be presented in the next Session.
A London electoral convention would not add to that process, and setting it up would be extremely cumbersome and unnecessarily bureaucratic. It is no small matter seeking to consult every political grouping represented in London local authorities, and there is no guarantee that all those diverse groups, and the main parties, could agree on the composition of the convention in time for it to convene, consult, make recommendations, and publish them before a referendum on 7 May. In all probability, the convention would serve to delay the referendum--and progress towards new government for London--by many months, putting at risk substantive legislation next Session.
The Government believe that it would be better to proceed as we have outlined. We will, after taking account of the responses that we have received, take the decision on what electoral systems will be the most appropriate. No doubt whatever we decide will be unwelcome to some, but that would also be the case with an electoral convention. The Government's decisions will form part of the package of proposals that we will put to the people of London in our White Paper, and on which they will be able to vote on 7 May. Of course, as the hon. Member for Southwark, North and Bermondsey will know, in the end it will be for Parliament to establish the authority in the context of the Bill.
A London electoral convention would only complicate and delay the process and would not guarantee that better electoral systems were selected. I hope that, on consideration, the hon. Member for Southwark, North and Bermondsey will see fit to withdraw his amendments. Given the enthusiasm of the hon. Gentleman and his colleagues for ensuring that London has the opportunity to scrutinise the proposals fully ahead of the referendum, it would seem odd to delay until after the referendum a decision on an issue that could fundamentally affect the nature and character of the GLA.
The amendments and the argument presented by the hon. Member for Southwark, North and Bermondsey--albeit clearly, succinctly and with the best of intentions--would serve only to delay progress towards democratic citywide government.
Mr. Simon Hughes:
I am grateful for the Minister's considered reply, and I understand why she is not accepting the amendments. However, I have never argued for delay--as the Minister will see from Hansard--and my party is at one with the Government. One way to achieve our aims would be to allow the convention to sit past May, but require it to complete its deliberations by the time the substantive legislation was introduced next year. We do not argue that the convention would have finished its work before the referendum in May.
Ms Jackson:
I understand the hon. Gentleman's argument, but I cannot accept that a convention that extended beyond the referendum would be helpful to the people of London. No greater clarity would be achieved, and confusion would be inevitable. People would think that they were being asked to buy a pig in a poke, and that is not the direction that we believe the new form of government should take. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will agree that the people of London have already waited 11 years too long, and anything that would delay the process would surely not find favour with them.
The right hon. Member for Sutton Coldfield presented his arguments for amendments Nos. 25 and 26 with great clarity and conviction, but I cannot see any great advantage in fettering consideration of the consultation process, or negating the responses that have been received, by legislating as he proposed. It is surely for the people of London to make a judgment on proposed electoral systems in the referendum in May, as part of the package presented to them in the White Paper.
The right hon. Gentleman made much of what he perceived to be the essential link between elector and elected. I agree whole-heartedly with him that that is vital,
if a parliamentary constituency is the basis of the link, but we are proposing a new form of local government in which the assembly and the mayor, working together, will have a strategic view of London.
The right hon. Gentleman discounted the idea of a strategic view, but Londoners do not live exclusively in their own parliamentary constituency or local authority area: they may have homes in one part of London and work or attend an educational establishment in another. They can bewail the failures that they perceive across London as a whole. It does a disservice to Londoners to present them as concerned exclusively about local issues in their city. There has been a strong response to the idea of restoring a democratic voice for the whole of London, because Londoners have a sense of being part of the city as a whole.
We are still considering responses to the Green Paper. We have made it clear that proposals for electoral systems for the authority will be fully covered in the White Paper, and that is what the people of London will be asked to vote on. We believe that that is the correct order to follow.
The Bill makes clear the areas in which directions from the Secretary of State may be necessary. Those directions will be guided by the provisions in the White Paper and by the timetable necessary to ensure that recommendations are available in time for the substantive legislation establishing the GLA.
Given the passion and conviction that informed the contributions of both the hon. Member for Southwark, North and Bermondsey and the right hon. Member for Sutton Coldfield, it is somewhat unlikely that they will respond to my request to withdraw the amendments, but I hope that they will give that request fair consideration.
Dr. Cable:
I acknowledge that the Green Paper provided in a short space a helpful summary of the key arguments for different electoral systems, but it is opaque about where the Government are heading, and we want to introduce a process that will lead to greater transparency.
It is perhaps unhelpful to approach the question as the right hon. Member for Sutton Coldfield (Sir N. Fowler) did, by calculating which party would do best out of which system; that is not the spirit of our approach. We should consider how to improve the legitimacy of the new body. The old Greater London council had a chequered history: as the hon. Member for Mole Valley (Sir P. Beresford) pointed out, it was often associated with great bitterness.
We need the new authority to be legitimate and grounded in public opinion, and to engender popular support and a sense of ownership. The first requirement for that is that it should be representative. I remind the Committee what happened in the last two GLC elections. The striking results are reminders of the dangers of simply reproducing the national first-past-the-post system.
In 1977, for example, the Labour party had a bad year and won only 32 per cent. of the votes, getting roughly the same number of seats, but the Conservatives won 70 per cent. of the seats with only 52 per cent. of the votes. Such a result could easily be reproduced in a bad mid-term poll for the Government.
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