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Mr. Gordon Prentice (Pendle): My constituent Sheila Doone is the widow of radio operator John Doone. There are fears in my constituency that there has been an official cover-up about the boat having been involved in a spying exercise. People are concerned that the veil of secrecy should be lifted after so many years.

Mr. Johnson: My hon. Friend makes a valid point. It is a feature of the documentary that needs to be mentioned. I accept that it is not the responsibility of the Minister, but it is part of the argument for reopening the inquiry.

In August 1974, the then Defence Minister Bill Rogers--now Lord Rogers--wrote to the relatives of the crew, saying:

"I can assure you that the British trawler fleet is not involved in any way in any intelligence gathering."

That denial was repeated as recently as March 1992.

It is beyond dispute that Hull trawlers were used consistently and extensively to spy on the Russian northern fleet in the strategically vital Barents sea. The trawlermen and their skippers, who, in the best traditions of the British working class, would not risk betraying their country by broadcasting their involvement, have known that all along. It has been common knowledge among the families of Hull trawlermen.

As a result of two television documentaries and press inquiries, we have the testimony of a scientist who worked in British intelligence, a Russian-speaking naval wireless operator specialising in interception, the managing director of a major Hull trawler company, and a former rear admiral. They, among others, have confirmed that Hull trawlers were used for espionage and counter- espionage in the Barents sea. Lord Rogers now accepts publicly that he was misled.

The families of those lost understand the sensitivity of the operations, and accept that the Gaul may not have been involved in such work. They accept that, during the cold war, Governments could not be as open as they would have liked. They know that other trawlers from the same company were used by the British Government, and that the Government continued to deny any involvement. They say that, logically, now that the cold war is over, there can surely be openness and honesty on the issue.

The television documentary shown on 6 November threw up a new mystery, revealing that close to the wreck of the Gaul was a cable stretched taut and running for several miles in both directions. The strong supposition is that it is a communications cable associated with the sound surveillance system--the SOSUS project--designed by the American intelligence service to monitor the passage of Russian submarines. Those points add to the case for reopening the inquiry.

Mr. Bob Blizzard (Waveney): I am grateful for the opportunity to express my support for the reopening of the inquiry. There is considerable interest in my constituency, because the Gaul was built at Brooke Marine shipyard in Lowestoft. Local people know that it

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was a fine boat. Being a seafaring, fishing community, the people of Lowestoft well understand the grief that disasters at sea cause. It is most unsatisfactory that the mystery has remained open for so many years.

Mr. Johnson: I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. The people of Hull appreciate the messages of support that they have received from Lowestoft and elsewhere. I appreciate the presence at this late hour of so many hon. Members for this important debate. It will be greatly appreciated by my constituents and others.

Hull is used to losing men at sea. As I said in my maiden speech, our men fish the deepest and most dangerous Arctic waters, and 900 Hull ships have been lost in the past 150 years. Hundreds of men have been swept overboard or lost in other ways in separate accidents. The hard and unrelenting cruelty of the sea has bred those qualities of stoicism, courage and dignity which characterise fishing communities the world over, and which make those communities so special.

Not all the crew came from Hull. As my hon. Friend the Member for Pendle (Mr. Prentice) said, the radio operator came from Nelson, in his constituency. Six of the crew came from North Shields, in the Tynemouth constituency, and my hon. Friend the Member for Tynemouth (Mr. Campbell) has been extremely supportive.

The families of the crew ask only that their grief and anguish over the past 23 years be respected by our ensuring an open and honest investigation into the circumstances of the loss of their loved ones on the Gaul.

Mr. Kevin McNamara (Hull, North) rose--

Mr. Deputy Speaker (Mr. Michael Lord): Ms Jackson.

Mr. McNamara: I believe that I have two minutes, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I have an agreement with my hon. Friend.

Mr. Deputy Speaker: I am sorry, but the Chair is not aware of any agreement. Has the hon. Member for Hull, West and Hessle (Mr. Johnson) made an agreement?

Mr. Johnson: I have, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I apologise for not having notified you.

10.30 pm

Mr. Kevin McNamara (Hull, North): I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Hull, West and Hessle (Mr. Johnson) for letting me speak, and it is not my intention to keep the House for long. However, my right hon. Friend the Member for Hull, East (Mr. Prescott) and I are the only Hull Members now remaining in the House who also represented the port when the great tragedy happened, so I want to say a few words.

In Hull, when we have lost trawlers we have generally been able to overcome our grief; there has been public mourning and recognition. Although there was some of that for the Gaul, the fact that the vessel went down without any trace, without any bodies and without any evidence caused many questions to be asked. Most of those have been asked by my hon. Friend, but there are many more.

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The real concern is: how was it that, for £50,000, that ship could be found in two days, when at the time, despite all the appeals by the then Members of Parliament for Hull, by the Conservative Members for the East Riding and by Anthony Crosland, who was then my right hon. Friend the Member for Grimsby, it was impossible to find it? Now we just do not know what to believe.

That is the real problem. The anguish is there, and the anger about how easily the wreck has been found is reflected in our community. We just do not know, and we are very unhappy about that.

10.31 pm

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Environment, Transport and the Regions (Ms Glenda Jackson): I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Hull, West and Hessle (Mr. Johnson) on having secured the debate, and thank him for his generosity in allowing an intervention by my hon. Friend the Member for Hull, North (Mr. McNamara).

The importance of the debate, as my hon. Friend the Member for Hull, West and Hessle has rightly pointed out, is underlined by the presence in the Chamber of so many of our colleagues, and also by the presence beside me on the Front Bench of my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State for Defence.

I am confident that the whole House would wish to join me in extending sympathy to the relatives of the crew of the Gaul who were so desperately bereaved in the tragedy--a tragedy exacerbated and made a thousand times worse by the fact that, for a quarter of a century, the families did not know where the vessel lay.

The marine accidents investigation branch is now examining the evidence provided by the television documentary team to determine whether it can clarify how the Gaul was lost. Inspectors met the maker of the Channel 4 "Dispatches" film, "Secrets of the Gaul" on 13 November to discuss their latest findings. The meeting lasted two hours and was very useful, as the programme maker was especially co-operative.

The marine accidents investigation branch was not formed until 1989, and therefore had nothing to do with the previous investigation into the tragedy. However, the files raised during the investigation are now held in the MAIB's Southampton offices.

My hon. Friend suggested that the loss of the Gaul may have been in some way related to intelligence gathering--a point also made in an intervention by my hon. Friend the Member for Pendle (Mr. Prentice). That is more properly a matter for my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Defence, but the Government are determined to be as open as possible on the subject, so as to ensure that no misunderstanding about the role of British trawlers in intelligence gathering is allowed to expand. There is no evidence that the Gaul was involved in intelligence gathering, or that Royal Navy personnel or Ministry of Defence equipment were on board. A very limited number of other fishing vessels assisted the Government in specific intelligence gathering. This practice, I must tell my hon. Friends, had ceased before the loss of the Gaul.

Returning to the subject of the investigation into the causes of the accident, it is worth recalling that the formal investigation into the loss of the vessel was held during

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September and October 1974, some seven months after the tragedy. My hon. Friend the Member for Hull, West and Hessle was correct in stating that the formal investigation concluded that the vessel capsized and foundered due to being overwhelmed by a succession of heavy seas when she was broadside to the sea. Severe weather prevailed at the time of the disappearance, with wind speeds up to force 10 and wave heights reported by other vessels in the area of over 40 ft.

Although the Gaul was, as my hon. Friend pointed out, regarded as a stable vessel, extensive model tests and flooding experiments have shown that, in certain circumstances, water could accumulate on the factory deck and lead to a loss of stability.

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