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7.15 pm
Although I disagree with the new arrangement, in the Select Committee on European Legislation the other day, I asked the Minister to explain why framework decisions in the area of freedom, security and justice are dealt with exclusively by secondary legislation. He was in some difficulty: I noticed his embarrassment. He could not state categorically that all questions relating to framework decisions would be dealt with by primary legislation.
Why is there qualified majority voting for what is described as "the other decisions?" What are the other decisions? He looks at me across the Floor, but he will not answer my questions, because he does not know the answers. He did not know the answers in the Select Committee, so he kept referring to his civil servant. He will read out his brief tonight, but he does not understand what is going on. That is the problem.
Why does the European Court of Justice continue to confer jurisdiction on itself? Why did the Government not take a position on the treaty to ensure a proper trimming of the Court of Justice?
Fundamental questions lie at the heart of the debate, and the Government must answer them. They will not answer any questions, because they lack sufficient comprehension. I condemn the Government for the treaty. The Conservative party will vote against it, because it is fundamentally wrong and is not in the national interest. The Government know it, Labour Members know it, and they will rue the day that they allowed the treaty to go through.
Mr. Denzil Davies:
My hon. Friend the Member for Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney (Mr. Rowlands) dealt brilliantly with the gist of amendment No. 1, so I shall be brief.
I did not want to discuss the European Court of Justice, but I shall just make a few comments. I recognise that a European Union has to have a supreme court. The hon. Member for Stone (Mr. Cash) was a little unfair when
he said that the court's agenda was political, and that it did not want people to know anything. The problem with the present court is that its antecedent is the Napoleonic French state court. The European Court of Justice was set up at about the same time as the European Coal and Steel Community--a particularly authoritarian organisation. It would be more sensible to use the different and more flexible procedures of other courts in Europe than the French state court procedure that the European Court of Justice uses. I suggest that we examine the court's procedures and consider whether they can be reformed to accord with continental practice in other countries, and with British practice.
The amendment would exclude certain words in article 1 that refer to economic and monetary union and ultimately a single currency. A technical question has been bothering me and I shall set it out before coming to the substance of my speech. I understood that the purpose of the Bill was to incorporate Community obligations into English law. Indeed, if there were no such obligations, it would not, in theory, be necessary to have a Bill. As we know, the royal prerogative enables a Government to ratify a treaty. Presumably, certain provisions in the Amsterdam treaty have to be translated or incorporated into the law of England and Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland--the United Kingdom. That being so, a Bill is necessary.
Article 1 refers to economic and monetary union and the single currency, the latter being stage 3. Those of us who participated in the debates on the Maastricht treaty are well aware that the single currency is the third stage of economic and monetary union. I had always understood that the United Kingdom had an opt-in, not an opt-out. Until we opt in to stage 3, if we ever do, how can that stage be a Community obligation for Britain?
On a technical level, the amendment seems absolutely right. Why do we need to bring into British law, English law--the law of the United Kingdom--an obligation that is not an obligation, if I may so describe it? Perhaps my hon. Friend will explain when he replies.
I see at the top of page 9 of the treaty the name "Mr. Douglas Henderson". He is said to have exchanged--I paraphrase--his full powers, which were found in "good and due form". I am glad to read that. The treaty tells us that he has agreed that
We are not subject to the stability pact. We are not subject either to the locking of exchange rates and the movement towards a single currency. I do not think that there are any legal obligations under stage 2, but there are definite legal obligations under stage 3. Why do we have to incorporate those obligations in the law of the United Kingdom when we are not bound by them until we accept them by opting in?
The question might seem to be technical, and perhaps it is an example of the pedantic points that lawyers like to raise. I shall be grateful if my hon. Friend the Minister is able to clear my mind when he replies and end my confusion.
My hon. Friend the Member for Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney dealt eloquently with the phrase "high level of employment". Should anyone think that I am out of order, those words are contained in article 1. They appear a few lines up the page from the reference to economic and monetary union. My hon. Friend said that my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary said at a meeting of the Select Committee on Foreign Affairs, "No, it is all different now. We have a new treaty that includes the magic words 'high level of employment'." My right hon. Friend explained that the words were intended to show that we believe in employment. Apparently, they represent a grand counterweight to those nasty monetarists at the European central bank.
The few of us who debated the Maastricht treaty night after night know very well that magic words about a high level of employment appeared in that treaty. I think that they were part of article 2. Our debates were designed to show the distinction between the vagueness of those words and the specific targets of setting up, for example, the central bank and price stability.
All we have is more words. We have nothing that is really new, and we still have unemployment. Nothing has changed. The leaders of the European Union are faced with 18 million unemployed citizens, almost 5 million of them in Germany. It may be that there will be 5 million in that country later this winter. Faced with that level of unemployment, European leaders have wonderful meetings where men in extremely nice suits drive up in very expensive cars to pretend that they can create wealth by so meeting. They pretend also that they can do something about unemployment. Most of those men and women have never been unemployed. Most of them, like most of us in the House of Commons, have not created any wealth in their lives. However, the meetings continue.
I accept that the lawyers do very well. I should be in favour of the process because it is great for lawyers. The Holy Roman empire was great for administrators and various other people and the European Union is great for lawyers, who draft with great skill. I have great admiration for continental lawyers, who are able to convert rather vague concepts into the language of treaties.
As I have said, nothing has changed. I have no doubt that Mr. Jospin is happy with the drafting, because it enables him to show the socialist party in France that he has secured a sort of counterweight to the European central bank. In fact, he has achieved nothing, and he knows it. He is happy, however, to dress things up in an effort to show that the French Government were concerned about unemployment.
What does a "high level of employment" really mean? We are incorporating those words into English statutes, in effect. That being so, we are entitled to ask what is meant by those words. If 80 per cent. are employed and 20 per cent. are not, is that a "high level of employment"? The words are chosen so that we do not know the answer. They are examples of the classical words used by monetarists, and I count myself something of a monetarist.
I was converted to monetarism at the Treasury years ago by Denis Healey and Milton Friedman. It accords to some extent with my Calvinistic-Methodist upbringing,
which told me that too much money is bad for us. I speak as a little monetarist. A "high level of employment" is part of a philosophy because we are told that monetary policy is what matters and that whatever happens to employment is unfortunate. There is no attempt--perish the thought--to refer to full employment. That being so, we have no definition. If there is to be incorporation into English law--perhaps my hon. Friend the Minister will tell me if I am wrong--what is meant, as my hon. Friend the Member for Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney asked, by a "high level of employment"? I think that we should be told.
"The Union shall set itself the following objectives".
There is then a reference to, ultimately, a single currency. As I have said, the United Kingdom is not part of the Union in the sense that it has agreed to the single currency. It is an opt-in, not an opt-out. There are therefore no obligations on the United Kingdom under stage 3 of economic and monetary union.
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