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10.16 am
Mr. John Greenway (Ryedale): I am grateful for the opportunity to say a few words on a constituency matter. I congratulate the hon. Member for Chorley (Mr. Hoyle) on securing the debate. Two points that he made stand out and fit very well with the comments that I want to make.
First, I agree with him that we should support British defence jobs. I also agree with my right hon. Friend the Member for Kensington and Chelsea (Mr. Clark) that that does not mean that we should buy equipment that is of no use to our armed forces. However, if the armed forces desperately need equipment, and there is a British product of the highest quality that is better than anything else in the world, we should seek to procure it. That is a wide-ranging issue. There is a wide definition of what constitutes defence equipment. It embraces the aircraft on which pilots in our armed forces learn how to fly. It may look like an aircraft that we could fly at Blackbushe airport, but it is military equipment.
The other point that the hon. Gentleman made was that air superiority has been paramount in recent armed conflicts, of which we have had experience. It is important
for us to have the best fighter and combat aircraft. I listened carefully to what the hon. Gentleman said about the European fighter aircraft: I have generally supported that project. It goes without saying that air superiority requires our pilots to have the best possible training. I have two interests in that. During my first 10 years in the House, the RAF base at Linton-on-Ouse was in my constituency. The initial jet pilot training for the Royal Air Force is now carried out there. Sadly, I lost Linton-on-Ouse to the Vale of York. None the less, I take this opportunity to pay tribute to the tremendous work that is done there. It is the only major flight training school that we have, so it is important that it continues.
About two or three years ago, I took a small aircraft manufacturer in my constituency, Slingsby Aviation, to see the then Minister of State for Defence Procurement, Mr. Roger Freeman. We put to him the proposition that it would make sense financially for the RAF to scrap the Bulldog aircraft, which is used by the University Air Squadron, when it came up for its midlife refit, and to replace it with the Firefly aircraft, which already serves 11 air forces throughout the world. In addition, our armed forces had already acquired about 17 and were about to acquire a further 25 for the joint elementary flight training scheme. We suggested that the Firefly was a better aircraft and that better value for money would be obtained if it replaced the Bulldog. I should add that it is manufactured by Slingsby Aviation in Kirkbymoorside in my constituency and that it has proved to be successful.
It is a matter of record that a review was undertaken, and a decision was made to scrap the Bulldog and to replace it with a new aircraft. However, as the hon. Members for Chorley and for Barrow and Furness (Mr. Hutton) have said, the system by which aircraft are procured is crazy. We go through this charade of competitive bids. The Ministry of Defence buys nothing. It asks a contractor to supply aircraft for so many flying hours. It does not say which aircraft it prefers and we get into a downward spiral of bids, underbids and further underbids: achieving best value for money for the taxpayer seems to be the only criteria that really matters. Perhaps I exaggerate, but the fact is that, a year ago, it looked as though a decision on which aircraft would replace the Bulldog would be made within a matter of months, and here we are a year later and no final decision has been taken.
As the Under-Secretary of State for Defence will know, the evidence that we are able to deduce from the confidential competitive bidding system is that two aircraft have been proposed by the two contractors who have bid for the contract. One is the Firefly and the other is a German aircraft manufactured by Grob, which is to use a factory that, I understand, currently has no work and is empty. There have been suggestions and innuendo that Grob has benefited from some hidden subsidy. I do not know. I do not make that allegation. I simply want to say this to the Under-Secretary of State for Defence.
Over the past year or so, the armed forces have taken delivery through FRA Serco Hunting of 25 Firefly 260 aircraft. They fly 90 sorties a day through the joint elementary flight training scheme and we understand that the aircraft is proving extremely reliable and an excellent elementary flight training aircraft for military pilots.
Mr. Gerald Howarth (Aldershot):
Is my hon. Friend aware that, last Monday, I had the opportunity of flying
Mr. Greenway:
I was aware of that and I am grateful to my hon. Friend and other Members for their support.
The aircraft speaks for itself. Our armed forces' experience of the aircraft suggests that there is no reason why it should not replace the Bulldog.
Mr. Hoyle:
Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the RAF is also happy with the Firefly? It has a proven record in the United States and it will support British industry and jobs. That is why the Minister should support the aircraft.
Mr. Greenway:
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his support. He mentioned the fact that the United States air force bought more than 100 Fireflys five years ago, for which the company involved won the Queen's award for exports. There have been three fatalities involving the aircraft in the United States, but I understand that every one was due to a lack of proper training by the flight instructors at one air base in the United States. Where the flight instructors have been properly trained, the aircraft has proved entirely satisfactory, so no one should suggest that there is anything fundamentally wrong with the Firefly. It is proving to be an excellent aircraft in our armed forces.
There is also the jobs factor. Already Slingsby Aviation has had to lay off staff because of a lack of orders. This is a niche market. It stands to reason that air forces throughout the world will buy these aircraft only from time to time. As I have said, Slingsby Aviation has supplied to 11 other countries and there are potential orders in the middle east, but, not surprisingly, countries there are looking with interest to see what our Government do. If the RAF does not invest its confidence in the Firefly aircraft and place an order for the 60 that are needed through one of the two contractors, all under the private finance initiative, those countries are bound to ask: why should we? That is an important point.
I do not want to press the Under-Secretary of State for Defence too hard because Ministers both in the previous Government and in this Government have understood the job implications of the decision, but I want him to be in no doubt that, this week, Slingsby Aviation has announced a further 20 redundancies. If the decision is not in its favour, I guess that, within two months, a further 42 staff will be made redundant. That will mean that all the people that Slingsby Aviation needs to build the aircraft will have been sacked.
That is the key point that the hon. Member for Chorley made. We have to protect our capability. Whether itis in building and manufacturing armaments that are occasionally needed by our armed forces in conflicts throughout the world, or the basic equipment with which we train our pilots, the argument is precisely the same.
Mr. Robert Key (Salisbury):
I congratulate the hon. Member for Chorley (Mr. Hoyle) on seeking and on being successful in obtaining the debate, which is on an important sector of the British export industry. I note with care not only what he said about Royal Ordnance, but his wise words about keeping peace around the world.
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