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8.30 pm
The second reason why I believe it is important to support the social chapter is that I want British social partners to have a say in the matters that will be discussed in any case by those who are involved in the social chapter discussions in the European Union institutions. The problem with the previous Government was that, by opting out, they gave away their authority to influence what was happening. The previous Government, by default, agreed to qualified majority voting in many areas as a result of the Maastricht treaty. They cannot complain now that the new Government in Britain were responsible for that because, patently, that was not the case.
Our social partners now have the opportunity to have their voice heard, to make known what they think is best dealt with in employment regulation at a European level and--very important--to make their views known on what they consider can be best achieved at a domestic level in national Parliaments. That is a very important advantage of our signing up to the social chapter.
The third reason why I believe it was right to sign the social chapter is that the British people, on any test of opinion, demonstrated in the general election on 1 May, by their choice of the parties that they voted for, that they wanted British workpeople to have that protection and wanted Britain to be involved in the discussions. I am pleased to confirm that the social chapter is a positive thing and that the Government welcome it.
I shall now discuss the employment clauses. I shall try to summarise to save time. There were references to employment in the treaty of Maastricht and previous treaties. The Amsterdam treaty gives appropriate prominence to the issue of employment. It says that the seeking of a high level of employment is a major purpose--a major function--of the European Union and the European Community. The treaty outlines how that should be achieved.
I say in all humility that the role of the new Government was not insignificant in getting that clause into the treaty. We succeeded in increasing the prominence, among the things that the European Community seeks, of the concept of employability--of European workpeople being better able to take on the challenges of tomorrow because they have better skills and a better education. That was achieved by the new British Government.
What is in the treaty in that regard may be summarised in four parts. First, the treaty says that all policy must be gauged against its employment implications. Who could disagree with that ambition? Secondly, it says that employment policies should be co-ordinated and that there should be a recognition of what can best be achieved at a European level and what is best achieved at a national level. Who could argue with that? Thirdly, it says that there should be an annual report, so that people, not Governments, throughout Europe know what is happening on the employment agenda, what has been agreed at a European level, what is being discussed, what is being agreed at a national level and when measures will come into effect.
One of the problems of the European Union on employment issues is that it is difficult to know what is happening at any of the stages of development. Industrialists and workpeople in this country often do not know what is happening about part-time workers, about working time or about consultation. They become confused because of the lack of focus or clarity. The employment clause forces all of us who are involved in these issues to be precise, to be communicative and to let people know what is happening. That is another important thing. Who could disagree with it?
Spending programmes have been mentioned. Limited spending programmes arise out of the summit in Luxembourg, but the spending is from existing funds, so there are no other expenditure implications.
I believe that there is a strong case for supporting the employment clause.
Even if there is a strong case in social terms for the social chapter, and even if there is a strong case for having employment ambitions and for co-ordination, should we decide not to incorporate those provisions into our law because of the damage that they will do to the competitiveness of our economy? In my opinion, we would be wrong to reach that conclusion.
The competitiveness of our economy is a crucial issue. Apart from the security of our nation, it is perhaps the most crucial. In a country such as Britain, which trades more of its national product than any other comparable country, making our economy competitive so that it can generate wealth and take on export markets is a central motive of any economic policy, but I believe that getting competitiveness right is not about knocking down wages or the standard of workers. It is about motivating workers, about raising their educational standards and about raising the skills of workpeople so that they can take on the challenge of tomorrow.
Workpeople in industry know how to secure the future of their job. They know that it is important to have new designs, new products and new ideas. They know about the importance of marketing. They know that it is important to manufacture products in a way that means that they can be sold at a competitive price, to be productive and to be flexible in the organisation of work at the workplace. All those things are crucial, so the Government have strongly emphasised the need for flexibility at the workplace to help in the running of our economy.
Flexibility is sometimes wrongly interpreted as meaning knocking down the levels of workers. If we try to improve the competitiveness of our economy only by knocking down the rates of pay and the conditions of workers, we shall patently fail because we will not be able to meet the challenge of tomorrow. Every company in the country that is an enterprising unit, whether it be large or small, knows that that is the case. To achieve competitiveness, one must motivate, and to do that one must treat workers reasonably. Part of that treatment is to give them the measure of support that they can get from the social chapter.
However, the social chapter is not only about what can be agreed at a European level; it is also about recognising that some things are better dealt with at a nation state level. When the Government judge that that is the case, and especially when that is reinforced by what our social partners tell us, we are determined to make it the case that
those matters are determined at a national level. That important section of the treaty of Amsterdam is to be commended to the House and to the British people.
I reject the proposed amendments.
Mr. Michael Howard (Folkestone and Hythe):
I shall be brief in responding to the debate. I agree, of course, with the Minister that it has been a good debate. Unfortunately, none of the essential arguments advanced by Opposition Members throughout the debate has received a vestige of an answer from the Government. None of the facts that we have cited has been challenged; none of the evidence has been impugned.
Given the economic performance of the United Kingdom over the past few years when compared with the performance of our partners in Europe, who have been subjected to the burdens that are contained in the social chapter and are similar to those that can be provided by the social chapter in future, there is no doubt that our performance has been superior.
The Government have failed entirely to answer our cardinal point that there is no need for the additional protections and provisions contained in the social chapter. Even if they decided none the less that they wished to make provision for such matters--we know and have acknowledged throughout that there are differences of view between the Government and the Opposition on these issues--there is no need to do so through the European social chapter.
The hon. Member for Harlow (Mr. Rammell), who is no longer in his place, sought to cast doubt on the Opposition's argument because he claimed that on the whole we do not favour legislation to provide additional social protection. That is true, but I have news for the hon. Gentleman, which is that the Labour party has a large majority in the House of Commons and, therefore, does not need our support for such provisions. If the Government wanted to introduce such provisions nationally, it would be the easiest thing in the world for them to do. There is no justification for subjecting the United Kingdom to measures that could be imposed on us, given that qualified majority voting applies to so many aspects of the social chapter against our will.
We know that proposals to which the Government are opposed have been brought forward under QMV. It is nonsensical for the Minister to say, as he did a few moments ago, that where there are matters that can best be decided on a national basis, we shall ensure that they are so decided.
By signing up to the social chapter, the Minister has deprived himself of the right to advance that argument. It can no longer be said. We can be outvoted on matters that even the present Government think would not be appropriate for the United Kingdom.
Nor did the Minister seek to deny that the employment debate guidelines that will be provided under the employment chapter will be mandatory in terms of the influence that they have on our employment policy, which could be subject to the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice. That would enable the court to direct certain employment policies to be pursued by the United Kingdom even if the Government were convinced that they would be entirely against our interests. There has
been no denial by the Minister about that. The only vestige of an argument that we have heard from the Government is that we should be in there, as it were, because otherwise we shall not be able to influence things.
I must caution the Government about that argument. There are so many organisations and ventures that we could join to obtain some influence, but in some instances there would be the most disagreeable consequences. The argument may be relevant, but it can never be decisive. It is an argument which should be treated with great caution.
Some extraordinary speeches have been made by Labour Members. For example, the hon. Member for Ealing, North (Mr. Pound)--he told us at some length that he had to dine elsewhere and so is no longer in his place--said that we need not worry about anything under the social chapter because there was a new attitude on the part of other countries in Europe. I am not entirely certain which of the examples referred to by my hon. Friend the Member for North Dorset (Mr. Walter) the hon. Gentleman had in mind. Perhaps he was thinking of the new desire on the part of the French and Italian Governments to introduce a 35-hour working week as demonstrating the new attitude to flexibility in Europe.
The hon. Member for Gedling (Mr. Coaker) argued that it is important for us to join the social chapter so as to obtain new flexibility in our approach to employment. He was not entirely clear. I thought that he would keep secret to the end of his speech precisely what he meant by flexibility arising from the social chapter. It became clear in the end that the hon. Gentleman meant that new measures were proposed for part-time workers.
There may be arguments in favour of introducing new measures for part-time workers, but to describe that approach as introducing a new flexibility into working conditions in the workplace is to deprive language of all meaning.
I think that it was the hon. Members for Harrow, East (Mr. McNulty) and for North Durham (Mr. Radice) who said that if we examine the language of the social chapter, everything will be fine. Unfortunately, neither of them was present for the most illuminating speech of my hon. Friend the Member for Altrincham and Sale, West (Mr. Brady), who told us exactly how flexibility was viewed by the Commission. He told us that Commissioner Flynn spoke of positive flexibility--an entirely new dimension to the phrase.
It is significant that every Conservative Member who has spoken has emphasised the importance that we attach to employment and jobs. We can always legislate to improve working conditions and to make social provision at the workplace more attractive, but when we do that we find that there are fewer and fewer people at work who are entitled to those benefits.
We believe passionately that a job is the best escape route from poverty, that work is the prize for which we should strive and that reducing unemployment should have a proper place in our policy prescriptions. We believe that signing up to the social chapter will do enormous damage to all those objectives. That is why we shall press the amendment to a Division.
Question put, That the amendment be made:--
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