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Mr. John MacGregor (South Norfolk): Everyone recognises the importance of new policies and actions to deal with the new challenges that we face in these areas in the years ahead. However, there is often wide suspicion that setting up a royal commission is a means of procrastinating instead of introducing policies and actions. Can the Secretary of State possibly justify spending seven months setting up a royal commission and then asking it to report within 12 months? How can he possibly justify
such a delay in setting up the commission? Given this further example of dither and delay on the part of the right hon. Gentleman and his colleagues, will he give an assurance that when the commission reports, he will demonstrate much more urgency than he has shown in setting it up?
Mr. Dobson: I shall quote some figures. We had 18 years of the Tories doing nothing, and within seven months the Labour Government have recruited an extremely distinguished group, led by an extremely distinguished chairman, who is happy with the proposition that the work should be done within 12 months. If the work is done within 12 months, that will be 18 times better than that which the Tories did.
Mr. Dennis Skinner (Bolsover): Is my right hon. Friend aware that one of the constant problems of Members of this place is dealing with the complaints that we receive from our constituents whose relatives are residing in residential homes that are not run as well as they should be? Will my right hon. Friend give an assurance that that is a likely area to be examined, given that there is a distinction between homes that are controlled by the local authority and inspected by it and those that are controlled and inspected by the health authority, where there is no democracy?
It is my experience that I can cause inspections to be carried out much more quickly when the local authority has accountability and there is democracy than I can when the home comes under the health authority, where those responsible are either indirectly elected or not elected at all. Will the royal commission's attention be drawn to that matter, so that we can assure people in future that we in this place will be able to take up their complaints in a proper manner?
Mr. Dobson:
I can give my hon. Friend the guarantee that he requires. We are determined to improve the regulation of provision for old people in residential homes, whoever provides those homes, because it is not satisfactory at the moment. I shall go further and say that, because we are dissatisfied with the treatment of some old people in general hospitals, I have asked the Health Advisory Service to produce a report on the treatment of elderly people in general hospitals. The situation is simply not satisfactory, and must be changed.
Sir Teddy Taylor (Rochford and Southend, East):
I wish the commission well. Will the Secretary of State ask it to look urgently at the nightmare in Essex and some other places, whereby a huge amount of public money is wasted and a great deal of distress is caused within families because of people being retained in hospital beds for the simple reason that local authorities cannot afford to fund retirement homes? Will he ask the commission to look at that serious problem, which also existed under the previous Government, and, perhaps, consider whether the remedy might be to transfer the responsibility for paying for homes from local authorities to health authorities?
Mr. Dobson:
I agree that the situation is unsatisfactory. Beds in general hospitals are occupied by people who would be better off, safer, more secure and healthier at
Mr. Gerry Sutcliffe (Bradford, South):
I welcome my right hon. Friend's statement. The timetable that he has set the commission is indeed tight, but is not one reason why we are having a royal commission the political dogma of the Conservatives when they were in government? They would not let local authorities keep homes that provided good accommodation and services, and they pushed everything into the private sector and caused a great deal of concern among elderly people.
Mr. Dobson:
There is a great deal of truth in what my hon. Friend said.
Mr. Nicholas Winterton (Macclesfield):
I personally, from the Conservative Benches, warmly welcome the Secretary of State's announcement. It brings the prospect of an end to the grotesquely unfair situation today, in which many elderly people who have worked hard during their lives, who have saved and been wise and thrifty, have to spend all their savings--sometimes including the asset of their own home--on paying for residential care. That is grotesquely unfair and causes a great deal of resentment.
I am grateful to the Secretary of State for the very talented people whom he has appointed to the commission. Professor Robert Stout, from Belfast, is a man for whom I have great regard, and Robin Wendt was not only the secretary of the Association of County Councils but chief executive of Cheshire county council. Will the Secretary of State give me an assurance that when the royal commission reports to him and to the House, legislation will very quickly follow?
Mr. Dobson:
I thank the hon. Gentleman for his welcome and for his very appropriate but generous comments about the members of the royal commission, who, indeed, are very distinguished. I cannot give him a guarantee that legislation will immediately follow. He is an older hand than me, and he will know that I cannot guarantee parliamentary time, but I can say that my statement was made on behalf of the whole Government, and we believe that the present situation cannot be allowed to continue for much longer.
Mr. John Gunnell (Morley and Rothwell):
I thank my right hon. Friend for his statement. Is he aware of the fact that many social services departments are now under such pressure that they do not make assessments if they feel that they will be unable to meet the need? The Select Committee on Health intends to produce its report on the relationship between health and social services during the current Session. The timing of that report will ensure that it is available to the commission that he has announced. I hope that he will do his best to ensure that the commission is ready to take advantage of that thorough
Mr. Dobson:
I thank my hon. Friend for his comments. He draws on a vast depth of experience in those matters. I am sure that the royal commission will welcome the report of the Select Committee on Health as soon as it is available.
Mr. Simon Burns (West Chelmsford):
May I say in passing that one of the right hon. Gentleman's political knockabout lines was extremely unfair to the dedicated civil servants in his Department? I know from first-hand experience that they have worked hard on long-term care.
Last winter, the previous Government made a number of announcements on regulation, registration and improvements on the split between residential homes and nursing homes. The Labour party, which was then in opposition, warmly welcomed some of those moves. Why is a White Paper required next year, given that time could be made up by going ahead with some of the proposals that the Labour party welcomed?
Mr. Dobson:
I made it clear in reply to what was purported to be the Opposition's official response to my statement that we want a well thought out, comprehensive proposal, and not merely odd bits and pieces introduced as and when. We shall produce a White Paper that will spell out our comprehensive response on certain aspects. I expect the royal commission to do a good job, and we shall carefully consider its report. We are under an obligation to do something about this problem, which has gone on for far too long. It certainly went on for a long time under the previous Government, who may have made proposals, but they never got round to doing anything about them.
Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley):
As a member of the last royal commission to be established by a Labour Government, may I say how much I welcome the announcement of this royal commission? I particularly welcome the speed with which it is to report. The commission of which I was a member spent three years working on its report. I remember the chairman saying that it would be different from all the others because it would not gather dust. That report had the misfortune to fall on the desk of an incoming Tory Government. Does my right hon. Friend agree that, if that Government had acted on the report's recommendations, the NHS would not be in the mess that it is in today?
Mr. Dobson:
I entirely agree with my hon. Friend. I shall say no more, because I need to save my voice.
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