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Jane Kennedy (Liverpool, Wavertree): I beg to ask leave to withdraw the motion.
Motion, by leave, withdrawn.
Mr. Wigley:
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. You will be very much aware of the strong feelings that have been expressed in Wales and elsewhere this week by farmers, in particular beef farmers, because of the acute desperation of the plight that they are facing. Yesterday, the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food said that there may be some rethinking of the compensation scheme. You will be aware of the meeting between the Secretary of State for Wales and agriculture representatives in Cardiff this morning. I wonder whether you have received any request for a statement to be made in the House so that farmers know before the weekend that some progress can be made. The depth of their present plight is driving some to be nearly suicidal.
Mr. Deputy Speaker (Mr. Michael Lord):
I have had no indication that a statement of that nature is to be made.
Ordered,
That Mr. Edward Leigh and Mr. Richard Spring be discharged from the Deregulation Committee and Mrs. Jacqui Lait and Mr. John Randall be added to the Committee.--[Jane Kennedy.]
Ordered,
That, at the sitting on Wednesday 17th December, notwithstanding Standing Order No. 16 (Proceedings under an Act or on European Community documents), the Speaker shall put the Questions necessary to dispose of proceedings on the Motion in the name of the Prime Minister relating to Fisheries not later than Seven o'clock.--[Jane Kennedy.]
5 Dec 1997 : Column 638
Postal Services (North Wales)
Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House do now adjourn.--[Jane Kennedy.]
1.53 pm
Mr. Gareth Thomas (Clwyd, West): I am conscious of the topicality of this motion as Christmas draws near and increasing demands are put on the employees of the Royal Mail. I must begin by paying tribute to the servants of the Royal Mail and to Post Office workers not only in my constituency but throughout north Wales and all parts of the United Kingdom. They work hard in sometimes difficult circumstances to provide what has been, on the whole, an excellent service.
I also pay tribute to those members of the Royal Mail and the Post Office group who work in this House for the benefit of hon. Members. As a new Member, I have found the service that they provide here to be of a high standard and I commend them for their courtesy and efficiency. I am sure that the Minister and other hon. Members would endorse those sentiments.
On the subject of Christmas, a wise man once said that to err is human but to really foul things up requires a computer. There is a strong grain of truth in that statement, which goes to the heart of the subject of this debate: which can serve us best--humans or machines?
The Royal Mail prides itself on its ability to collect a letter anywhere in Britain and deliver it the next day, charging a flat rate across the United Kingdom. It has succeeded in doing that through its commitment to maintaining a network of sorting offices throughout Britain, including--this is of specific interest in north Wales--in rural communities. However, that important network and the vital service that it provides now seem to be under threat, especially in north Wales.
As part of its strategic plan for the region announced on 5 June this year, the Post Office has said that it will close all sorting operations in north Wales and centralise sorting functions in Chester. Offices in Colwyn Bay, Bangor, Rhyl and Wrexham will cease all sorting operations, known in the business as "outward vouching".
I raise this subject in an Adjournment debate because I am far from convinced by the Royal Mail management's assurances that those changes will not deleteriously affect the quality of the service that we have come to expect from the Royal Mail. I am particularly concerned about the effect that the changes will have on first class letter delivery within north Wales. Although there may be a case for saying that the speed with which letters can be delivered from north Wales to London or other big conurbations in England will not be affected, there must be a question mark--given that mail will have to be delivered to Chester--over whether mail to be delivered from one end of north Wales to the other will arrive the same day. That concern has been expressed by many members of the business community.
The effect on services in rural areas particularly concerns me. May I give one example? If a customer mails a letter from Llanddulas to Betws-yn-Rhos, or from Rhyd-y-foel to Abergele, the letter goes to the Colwyn Bay sorting office, where it is sorted and delivered. However, under the Post Office's proposals, mail from the village of Rhyd-y-foel will not go to Colwyn Bay but will have to go first to Chester, where it will enter the
new-fangled integrated mail processing unit, known as IMP to its friends. The letter will enter the IMP and come out the other end, only to be sent all the way back to Colwyn Bay, the local delivery office.
The Minister who is to reply to this debate is familiar with the geography of north Wales and will know that it makes little sense to many people in Wales to take mail from Llanddulas to Chester and then back to Colwyn Bay. Even the Post Office accepts that there may be what it rather euphemistically describes as "local anomalies". I believe that there are serious and justifiable concerns about the efficiency of the services to be provided under the new proposals.
There is also likely to be an effect on the rural communities of my constituency. I will name a few to give an indication of the Welsh nature as well as the rural dimension of my constituency. Those communities include Llangernyw, Llansannan, Llanfair Dyffryn Clwyd, Llanfihangel Glyn Myfyr, Cerrigydrudion, Llanrhaedr yng Nghinmeirch, not forgetting Llanarmon yn Ial.
The Post Office has argued that its investments will improve services across the entire north Wales north-west division. That strategy is linked to similar plans to improve and mechanise the service in the north-west England. The difficulty is that, although those improvements may make some sense in the more populated north-west England, they will not work in north Wales.
There is every likelihood that collection times will have to be brought forward, in some cases to the mid-afternoon. That will greatly affect the business operations of small and medium-sized enterprises across the region. Hon. Members may be aware that there is a great need to boost that particular sector of the economy in Wales. Furthermore, in the event of severe weather conditions--I am not doing a disservice to Wales by saying that the weather can sometimes be inclement and unpredictable--there is an increased chance that mail will be delayed on its epic journey across Offa's Dyke.
It may interest the House to learn that a similar scheme was attempted by the Royal Mail in 1982, when a mechanised sorting system was centralised in Chester. Following a barrage of complaints from customers, the system was scrapped. Again, to use the jargon of the Post Office, it was felt necessary to de-concentrate mail services back where they belonged, in the local communities.
Let us consider the required technology and machinery. I have made inquiries of the Communication Workers Union and I pay tribute to the excellent work done not only by Welsh postal workers in Colwyn bay and other areas, but by Mr. Ken Hanbury, Mr. Ken Moxham and Mr. Terry Hughes. They are excellent servants of the CWU and the Post Office. They tell me that there are grounds for being sceptical about the ability of the new IMPs to do their job. The jam rate--the number of breakdowns--can be high: 11 jams an hour compared with the target of seven. Let us not forget that machines are made by humans and not averse to fouling up.
As a matter of interest, perhaps the Post Office, when it realised that I intended to initiate this debate, felt that it should fire a warning shot across my bow, because I received an important item in the post this week and it had been shredded. I hasten to add that that is not the
norm, and I am extremely pleased with the level of service that the Royal Mail provides. I understand that the complete destruction of that letter--I received its contents in a plastic bag--was caused by an automated machine, so it does happen.
The environmental impact of the proposals are also worth mentioning. Grave concern has been expressed by the local councils in my area, including Denbighshire and Conwy county council, which are working on the local agenda 21. Let us look objectively at what will happen as a result of the increased traffic caused by the proposals. Surely we should be using the roads less. Local agenda 21 puts an emphasis on local sustainable economic activity. What about the national air quality strategies, which aim for full compliance with the World Health Organisation's health-based guidelines for transport-related pollutants by 2005? What about the integrated transport strategy, which aims to reduce traffic congestion? In many respects, the Royal Mail's proposals run counter to the trend of opinion and Government policy.
I reject the logic of the Post Office's view:
One statistic illustrates that point: the community of Mochdre is three miles from the nearest sorting office in Colwyn Bay, but it is 60 miles from Chester. One needs only simple arithmetic to work out the impact of the proposals. I note the presence in the Chamber of the right hon. Member for Caernarfon (Mr. Wigley) and I am sure that he would agree that this problem is accentuated in respect of communities on the north-west periphery of north Wales--for example, Trefor, with which I have strong family links, and Aberdaron on the tip of the Lleyn peninsula. To suggest that mail can go from Aberdaron to Chester and back to Aberdaron while still giving us the quality of service we have come to expect is sheer nonsense.
In terms of economic impact, the plans will have a deleterious effect on jobs: this is a case of putting technology before people. I was astounded to learn today from a telephone conversation with the Post Office Users Council of Wales that it has been told that all mail from north Wales must be sorted in Chester, simply to justify the expenditure on the new machinery--a remarkable admission. The human side of the communications industry has been forgotten. One IMP takes the work of 25 people, and many who understand the system well and have experience of the expert task of sorting mail believe that the imposition of IMPs will lead to jobs being lost.
I do not wish to sound like some latter-day General Ludd, exhorting the workers to rage against the machines. I recognise the need for automation, as does the Communication Workers Union, but for the good of the north Wales economy and mail customers across the region, the Post Office should continue automated and manual sorting in the Chester and north Wales offices. Colwyn Bay, Rhyl, Bangor and Wrexham are all towns that currently suffer economic problems. Colwyn Bay in particular requires economic regeneration--and figures published last week showed that Conway county council area had the lowest average wage in Britain. It is no use
the Post Office saying that there will be no compulsory redundancies; the fact is that employment opportunities in north Wales will suffer greatly.
The issue of regional identity causes concern to many people. It might seem a small thing to lose the postmark that shows that the letter one has sent or received originates in a distinct community in north Wales, whether Rhyl, Wrexham or Colwyn Bay. Under the plans, those individual postmarks will go and a generic Chester and north Wales postmark will be substituted in their place. I appreciate and pay tribute to the Royal Mail's good work in fostering the Welsh language, but the fact remains that a momentous decision was taken in Wales this year--the Welsh people endorsed the Government's vision of decentralised and democratic government in the form of a Welsh Assembly--so it jars somewhat that the Post Office should be introducing these changes at this point in Welsh history.
Hon. Members may be aware that Aldous Huxley once said:
"Overall, throughout the North Wales and North West Division as a whole . . . we confidently expect to achieve a substantial reduction in miles travelled."
In my view, the plan might reduce road traffic in north-west England, but it is obvious that road miles will increase across north Wales as a result of these plans.
"Technological progress has merely provided us with more efficient means of going backwards."
The case of the Post Office's plans for north Wales seems to prove the point. As a result of the installation of integrated mail processing units at Chester, mail services across north Wales, especially in rural areas, will undoubtedly suffer. Earlier collection times and later deliveries can be expected. The region's economy, already under pressure, will suffer another blow as jobs are taken away and the area's profile suffers.
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