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Mr. William Ross: Does my hon. Friend realise that the other horrifying possibility is that the Government might reduce the commission membership to three?
Mr. Thompson: I thank my hon. Friend for making that point. I accept that a quorum of two may be intended for a number of members lower than six, but a quorum of two for any organisation is nonsense. The quorum for any organisation should be at least three. A quorum of two means that two people could get together and run the show. That is unacceptable.
Mr. Öpik: Amendment No. 7, tabled by the hon. Member for South Down (Mr. McGrady) is sensible. I shall not reiterate the arguments in its favour, but if it can be taken separately, it will receive the support of the Liberal Democrats.
Mr. Worthington: This group of amendments all deal in some degree with the composition of the Parades Commission. Amendment No. 39, which was tabled by the hon. Member for East Londonderry (Mr. Ross), would mean that the Parades Commission would consist of a chairman and no fewer than six other members, imposing a minimum of seven.
However, the Bill as drafted reflects consultation by the Government with the Parades Commission--which applies to all our recommendations--and its members, having analysed their work load for the forthcoming year, would prefer the flexibility that the drafted formulation will give. We must respect their views on their work load and on the number of members--that is, a chairman and six other members, giving a maximum of seven. If that is the commission's view on the number of members needed, I can see no good reason why the House should see the matter differently. Therefore, I urge the House to reject amendment No. 39.
Mr. William Ross:
The Minister is sticking to his view that the commission should have seven members. As it already contains a well-known member of the SDLP, how many Unionists will be on it? How many members of the Ulster Unionist party, the Democratic Unionist party and the United Kingdom Unionist party will be on the commission?
Mr. Worthington:
We shall not appoint people to the commission on the basis of quotas. We shall appoint people on merit, because that is the basis on which we appoint to public bodies. Quotas are divisive, and the Government do not wish to take that approach. In Committee, the hon. Gentleman tabled an amendment similar to amendment No. 39, and he said that he was trying to achieve balance within the commission. I believe that Government amendment No. 27 achieves that balance.
There was a clear consensus in Committee, and in the House, on the need for the commission to be representative of the community in Northern Ireland, as far as is practicable. I am sure that that is right. We have sought balance in the existing commission and will
continue to do so, but we are also legally obliged to appoint on merit. We cannot set membership by quota, and we would not want to do so.
Government amendment No. 27 is similar to the requirement in the Police Act relating to the Police Authority. It will make it a duty for the Secretary of State to ensure that the Parades Commission is, as far as is practicable, representative of the community in Northern Ireland. I therefore commend it to the House.
Mr. Thompson:
If the number of members of the commission were increased to eight--as the Secretary of State has power to do--what would the quorum be? Would it remain two?
Mr. Worthington:
I will come to the quorum in a moment.
Amendment No. 40, tabled by the hon. Member for East Londonderry, would restrict membership of the commission to UK citizens resident in Northern Ireland. He said that various people would be excluded from membership and that that suited him.
It is very odd for a Unionist to want to exclude citizens of the United Kingdom who do not live in Northern Ireland. That principle is contrary to the spirit of the Race Relations (Northern Ireland) Order 1997, article 72 of which applies a statutory prohibition against discrimination on racial grounds to appointments to offices or posts by Ministers and Departments. Article 5(1) provides that "racial grounds" includes the grounds of nationality or ethnic or national origins.
Mr. David Trimble (Upper Bann):
May I refresh the Minister's memory in respect of his own amendment No. 27, which imposes a duty to secure that the
Mr. Worthington:
That argument implies that the only characteristic that makes someone representative of Northern Ireland is residence in Northern Ireland. The chair of the Parades Commission is not resident in Northern Ireland, but we think that he is making a considerable contribution. This is dangerous ground for Unionists. It is possible to do a good job for the citizens of Northern Ireland while not being resident in Northern Ireland. We do not want to go that way. If we accepted amendment No. 40, we would discriminate against all non-UK citizens and against UK citizens not resident in Northern Ireland. I therefore urge the House to reject that amendment.
Amendments Nos. 7 and 28 are similar. I am grateful to the hon. Member for South Down (Mr. McGrady) for tabling amendments in Committee and on Report on the commission's quorum arrangements. We have consulted extensively with the Parades Commission on that. After considering Government amendment No. 28 and his amendment No. 7, we believe that his points have a sound basis. I am told that there is a flaw in his wording, but he made a strong case. The best that we can do at this stage is to leave the Bill as it is. I am being encouraged to ask him to withdraw his amendment while we withdraw ours.
Mr. McGrady:
I do not know where the flaw is, but I understand that there is a difficulty in that my proposal for a quorum of five out of seven is a bit top-heavy. I do not want to rehearse what I consider to be the illogicality of the Government's amendment, but if both were withdrawn, we would revert to the quorum in the first draft, which is three whatever the number of members. On that basis, I would be prepared, with the House's permission and on condition that the Government did not press amendment No. 28, not to press amendment No. 7.
Mr. Worthington:
We seem to have reached agreement. At the final stage of the Bill, we have shown our willingness to listen to the views expressed in amendments. That has characterised our approach throughout our proceedings on the Bill in this House and in the other place.
Amendment negatived.
Amendment made: No. 27, in page 12, line 16, at end insert--
Amendment made: No. 29, in page 15, leave out lines 23 to 26.--[Mr. Ingram.]
Amendments made: No. 30, in page 16, line 25, at end insert--
"Commission is representative of the community in Northern Ireland"?
That surely requires him to appoint people who are members of the community of Northern Ireland. How can he say that someone who is not a member of that community is in any way representative of it?
12.45 am
'(3) The Secretary of State shall so exercise his powers of appointment under this paragraph as to secure that as far as is practicable the membership of the Commission is representative of the community in Northern Ireland.'.--[Mr. Ingram.]
| '1970 c. 9 (N.I.). | The Police Act (Northern Ireland) 1970. | In Schedule 1, paragraph 15(2) to (4).'. |
No. 31, in page 16, line 31, column 3, at end insert--
| 'Article 5(2).'. |
No. 32, in page 16, line 36, column 3, at end insert--
| 'In Schedule 1, paragraph 4.'. | --[Mr. Ingram.] |
Public Processions (Northern Ireland) Bill [Lords]
Order for Third Reading read.
12.51 am
Mr. Ingram: I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time.
Before I make a few remarks about the Bill, I want to touch on some other, related, issues that are worthy of consideration.
I know that all right hon. and hon. Members will share my revulsion at the appalling series of sectarian murders that have heightened tension in Northern Ireland in recent weeks. Those terrible events cast a dark shadow over the Province. Those who carry out such acts speak for no one other than their own extreme factions. Their purpose is malign, but they should know that it will not prevent or distract the Government from achieving their overall objective of bringing about a peaceful and lasting settlement for all the people of Northern Ireland. The RUC and the security forces will do everything in their power to bring those who carry out such evil acts to justice. The Government, with the support of the vast majority of people across the communities in Northern Ireland, are determined to succeed, and the actions of a murderous few will not stand in the way of the wishes and hopes of the many. I know that I speak for all hon. Members when I make those comments.
The Bill was born out of the dramatic, damaging and dangerous events of recent years associated with what is termed the marching season. The previous Government put in place a mechanism to consider the causes of those events and to seek ways to deal with them. The result was the North report, which was an authoritative study of the problem and proposed a range of measures.
My party in opposition made it clear that, when elected, we would legislate for the implementation of the report. We have now carried out that promise in government.
The Bill, as originally drafted and presented for consideration to the other place, was constructed to take account of various representations made on certain key elements. It received full and detailed scrutiny in the other place. From the outset, we made it clear that we wanted it to reflect as best it could cross-community and cross-party views on these matters. Significant changes were made to the Bill in the other place as a result of the expression of such views. Certain matters were left for further consideration because of the complexities involved.
The Committee stage in this House proved very useful in exploring the issues and seeking the best way in which to deal with them. I thank all who served on the Standing Committee. The amendments that have been made to the Bill today reflect many of the views expressed by hon. Members in Committee and I thank them for their contribution.
If the Bill is passed, the Government will have fulfilled the clear commitment that they made on taking office to implement the recommendations of the North report. We said all along that we believed the report to be correct in its judgment that the problem of parades was the accommodation of competing rights. Our endorsement of the report's conclusions and their embodiment in law will ensure a new approach to a difficult and complex problem.
We must all try to ensure that parades never again become the focus for the sectarian bitterness that has plagued Northern Ireland for so long. The events of the past three years at Drumcree, in the Ormeau road and in Londonderry have seen a rekindling of deep community divisions that some hoped had been consigned to the past.
In the wider political context, even in the face of the shocking and futile violence of recent days, the opportunity exists to make real progress. The Bill is intended to ensure that those on either side who seek only to foment discord and prevent progress cannot use the issues relating to parades to bring their malign influence to bear.
Many seek to apportion blame for the problems presented by parades, but we should give credit to those who made the courageous decisions on the weekend of 12 July that ensured that last year's marching season passed off without the serious wide-ranging disturbances of the previous two years. There were problems last year, but fewer than in previous years because of that brave decision by the Orange Order. That is a hopeful sign for this year and the years ahead. I am confident that passing the Bill will pay dividends in the coming months and beyond.
The members of the Parades Commission deserve immense credit for the work that they have done in facilitating agreement and resolving individual disputes to date. I assure them that they have the Government's whole-hearted support in meeting the great challenges that they will face.
The commission has now received views on the three draft documents that were published for consultation purposes in October last year. Following the enactment of the Bill, the documents will be laid before each House and will be brought into effect by an order made under the affirmative resolution procedure. As I announced on Second Reading and clarified in Committee, hon. Members will have the opportunity to debate the documents fully in due course.
Our debates have confirmed the depth of feeling on all sides about the issue--a passion that is peculiar to Northern Ireland. If we succeed in resolving an issue that is, in so many ways, a microcosm of the almost intractable problems that Northern Ireland has faced for so long, it will surely help to serve as a blueprint for a more stable and better future for all the people. That is the Government's earnest wish.
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