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Mr. Trimble: I do not disagree in any way with the comments that the hon. Gentleman has just made, but it
appears that there has been another shooting this evening--unfortunately, in my constituency, in the town of Lurgan. It would therefore be appropriate to mention that it appears that those responsible for the shooting are loyalists, although we do not yet know the circumstances or identity of the victim. In view of that, I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will join me in underlining our complete rejection and condemnation of such murders, particularly the incident that appears to have happened tonight. I am sure that he does not want his appropriate comments about other circumstances to lead people to assume that we do not condemn the recent murders.
Rev. Ian Paisley: I join the right hon. Gentleman without reservation in that. One of my ministers is under severe threat in that area. He has been told that he will probably be targeted and taken out. Everyone knows what is happening in Northern Ireland.
We are discussing this because the IRA's strategy is to develop bitterness in communities along the lines that we have seen. That is not just what we say--it is what they say. Gerry Adams, the chief of IRA-Sinn Fein, said on a well-publicised RTE programme that it had taken three years of preparation and planning to organise and orchestrate the anti-parade feeling, which he said would be exploited to the advantage of the Provisional IRA. What words could be clearer? He has exposed their intentions. They succeeded. The hon. and learned Member for North Down (Mr. McCartney), who is not here at the moment, made it clear that there are convicted terrorists in the forefront of the agitation, carrying out murders for the Provisional IRA and Sinn Fein.
Rev. Martin Smyth:
There have been references to the past tonight. People might think that we are looking at the past. Looking to the future, is the hon. Gentleman aware of the seminars held last summer in which committees for estate control were set up throughout Northern Ireland? Each committee must contain at least one ex-prisoner.
Rev. Ian Paisley:
Chairmen of community organisations have also been told to ensure that the officers appointed at their next annual general meeting include leading members of Sinn Fein and ex-prisoners. That is happening at the moment. The strategy for bringing the IRA's plan to its zenith is set in place. I am alarmed by hon. Members, including Ministers, suggesting that the Orange Order is to blame for what has happened. The Government have failed--
Mr. Ingram:
Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Rev. Ian Paisley:
I shall give way in a moment or two. The Minister was not so quick to give way to me, so he can wait for it.
As we know, something happened in Londonderry. The leader of the Social Democratic and Labour party made it clear at the time that he had nothing to do with what happened and condemned it. That condemnation was accepted. Tonight, I heard the Minister praising people of the committee. My party did not get on to the committee. The Government have said that they are not going to appoint people in keeping with the community. The Democratic Unionist party is not regarded as part of the community. I get the largest vote across Northern Ireland in election after election for the European Parliament.
I must be part of the community. I do not know why the Government leave us off committees. It will not do them any good. If the community is not equally represented, the Government make trouble for themselves. Having said that, I shall give way.
Mr. Ingram:
The hon. Gentleman said that Ministers had made accusations, and attributed blame to the Orange Order for the problems. He will not find one word during any stage of the consideration of this Bill, or anywhere else, that can uphold that charge. Indeed, in my opening remarks, I paid tribute to the Orange Order for the brave decisions that it took during the 12th weekend last year. I wish that the hon. Gentleman would get the facts right when he is speaking about very important issues such as this.
Rev. Ian Paisley:
If the hon. Gentleman reads in Hansard tomorrow what his hon. Friend the Under-Secretary said, and not what he tried to say, I shall be proved right. Let us just keep to the facts.
People say on television that they will not tolerate the majority of the thugs. Who was the majority? Who did we hear saying that the bully boys were out? I live in Northern Ireland. I hear what Ministers say, and I hear what others say, too. The Orange Institution and the Protestant people are not responsible for this. This has been orchestrated by the IRA.
I was called to order earlier because I was exposing the IRA. Now, on Third Reading, I can make the statement that I wanted to make. Who are these IRA people? One is a man called Martin McGuinness. If I said things about him in the House, people would say, "That's just Ian Paisley," but I have in my hand an article written by a Roman Catholic journalist from the Bogside. She takes Martin McGuinness to task; she deals with him as she knows him. Those people are organising what the Government say they are going to deal with. She of course supports the Bloody Sunday investigation.
This journalist says about Mr. McGuinness:
Martin McGuinness is a man who has been behind the whole thing as an agitator, yet now we hear condemnations of ordinary decent law-abiding citizens simply because they want to hold on to their culture and heritage. The House needs to realise how deeply all that goes into the quick not only of Protestant people but of people such as Mrs. Heggarty.
What about the bodies that the IRA, although it knows where they lie, will not give up for decent Christian burial? Yet I am told that I have to negotiate with such people and reach some sort of rapport with them. Ministers say that they hope that the two sides will come together. How can we come together with such a person, who has never once breathed a regret that those things should have happened?
Tonight, we are dealing with a Bill about processions, and we all know where it is directed. It is directed against Orangism, the Black Institution and the Apprentice Boys of Londonderry. We shall see that when it comes into operation.
Something else needs to be said in the House tonight. The suspicion in Northern Ireland is that the reason why there has been a shift from putting the commission in the front line to adjudicate, is that the Government know that the ordinary general public have had a bellyful of that kind of thing, and will not take too well to people telling them that they have to make their peace with the Martin McGuinnesses and the Gerry Adamses of this world, despite the fact that those men fomented the conflict and brought it into being.
"How dare you, big chief republican, current killers' mouthpiece, former killers' colleague, clamour for prosecutions.
That is where I was stopped in the previous debates. The article continues:
If we inquired into the entirety of the violence of the early 1970s with half the vigour you want for the Bloody Sunday investigators, who would stand accused beside the paratroopers.
'I think General Sir Robert Ford (Commander of Land Forces in Northern Ireland in 1972) in particular is going to come under the microscope,' you said.
It's a pity you could not go under with him. Perhaps the search for truth and justice will someday uncover the role of command you had in another land force of the time."
"Mrs Rose Heggarty must long to know."
Who is Rose Heggarty? The article continues, saying to Martin McGuinness,
"You promised, on bended knee, that her son was safe to return from exile.
4 Feb 1998 : Column 1188
He was in hiding from the IRA who had threatened to kill him. You promised and cajoled and charmed her into telling him to come home.
A few boys would question him and he'd be free to go, you told her. His sister drove him to the appointed place. His sister, unwittingly, drove him to his death. He was shot and his body unceremoniously dumped.
That is a statement not of a Unionist leader or an elected leader, but of a Roman Catholic journalist from that area. She knows what people have had to put up with.
Those women long for the truth behind that atrocity. They won't hold their breath waiting for you to speak it.
As Sinn Fein spokesman, your truths, like your morality, are selective. Your double standards are sickening . . . Sinn Fein should shut up . . . They have covered a dirty, murky, bloody past of their own in a way that makes Widgery look positively Godly."
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