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Mr. Dafis: I am grateful to the Secretary of State for his response and I have enjoyed the debate. The amendments have served their primary purpose, which was to give us an opportunity to debate sustainable development. It is good to know that there is widespread support for the principle and that the idea that the assembly should take sustainable development as an informing theme and that Wales will do so has been widely accepted here. I certainly acknowledge that the Government's new clause will ensure that the issue is high on the assembly's agenda when it meets, which is very important.
The debate has been useful, although not all of it has been well informed. The debate about energy illustrated the need for people to become much more well informed about the options that we face on energy supply. No development is without its impact. If we talk about dispersed development--which sustainable development is, by definition--the visual impact will be real, although much less than the visual impact that exists in our environment. I had better leave it there. I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Mr. Llwyd:
I beg to move amendment No. 520, in page 56, line 13, at end insert--
The Second Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means (Mr. Michael Lord):
With this, it will be convenient to discuss the following amendments: No. 524, in clause 121, page 56, line 40, leave out from beginning of line to end of line 2 on page 41 and insert
No. 525, in clause 122, page 57, line 6, leave out 'cease to exist' and insert 'are transferred.'.
No. 526, in clause 123, page 57, line 19, leave out 'or Schedule 11.'.
No. 527, in page 57, line 21, leave out 'cease to exist' and insert 'are transferred.'.
No. 528, in page 57, line 28, leave out 'cease to exist' and insert 'are transferred.'.
No. 529, in page 57, line 33, leave out 'cease to exist' and insert 'are transferred.'.
No. 530, in page 57, line 41, leave out 'cease to exist' and insert 'are transferred.'.
No. 531, in clause 124, page 58, line 2, leave out 'and Schedule 11.'.
No. 532, in page 58, line 11, leave out 'cease to exist' and insert 'are transferred.'.
No. 533, in page 58, line 13, leave out 'cease to exist' and insert 'are transferred.'.
No. 534, in page 58, line 16, leave out 'cease to exist' and insert 'are transferred.'.
No. 535, in page 58, line 22, leave out 'cease to exist' and insert 'are transferred.'.
No. 536, in page 58, line 25, leave out 'cease to exist' and insert 'are transferred.'.
No. 537, in page 58, line 35, leave out 'cease to exist' and insert 'are transferred.'.
No. 538, in page 58, line 40, leave out 'cease to exist' and insert 'are transferred.'.
No. 539, in clause 125, page 59, line 11, leave out 'ceasing to exist' and insert 'being transferred.'.
Mr. Llwyd:
Amendment No. 520 is straightforward, saying, in other words, that there should be a Department charged with formulating policies of relevance to the rural economy.
I wish to draw attention to amendment No. 524. Clause 121 currently reads:
I ask the Government to consider my proposal that the word "transfer" is preferable to the phrase "cease to exist". Surely the functions are still very much in existence--perhaps more than ever in view of the agriculture crisis. The Minister should give thought to that matter in his response.
Many people in rural areas in Wales are worried because of the changes occurring in the agencies charged with ensuring the economic development and well-being of rural areas. I speak as a Member representing a constituency which was very well served by the Development Board for Rural Wales. Other hon. Members in the Chamber were equally well served by that board, and they have shown in the past, and will show in the future, their concern about this matter.
People who live in mid-Wales have for some time enjoyed great assistance from the Development Board for Rural Wales, a body specifically set up to tackle the problems of rural Wales. Over the years, the board amassed considerable expertise and experience. The task of economic regeneration in rural areas is far more difficult, and requires more application and creativity than in an urban area, where at a stroke of a pen--frequently on a cheque--many hundreds of jobs can be created.
Many of us look with envy at the recent developments in north-east and south-east Wales. Who would not accept 6,000 new jobs at a plant such as LG at Newport? That underlines the dichotomy. In that instance, 6,000 jobs were created, thus having a dramatic effect on the unemployment figures and the economy of that area--which is to the good. To create 6,000 jobs in rural areas is, by comparison, a mammoth task. A more sympathetic approach is required, together with an intimate knowledge of the needs and requirements of rural areas.
One grave concern is the fact that WDA and the Development Board for Rural Wales moneys have been used to bring in such plants as Sony and LG, but, without being niggardly--I do welcome their arrival--I must question what price has been paid for their success. There is no doubt that, proportionately, far higher spending has occurred in the eastern areas of south Wales and in the industrial eastern area of north Wales than in the rest of Wales. By and large, the rural areas of Wales are and have been let down.
I am not saying that that was in any way intentional, but the budget was finite, and a great deal of money was taken out of the overall cake and went into some of those schemes.
Mr. Gareth Thomas:
Does the hon. Gentleman believe that the lack of democratic accountability and transparency in the development of economic policy in Wales may have had a bearing on the fact that there has been an imbalance not only between east and west, but between rural and urban, and between small businesses and large projects?
Mr. Llwyd:
The hon. Gentleman makes a good point, and he may be correct. I am hopeful, as he will be, that the new set-up under the assembly will put paid to that aspect, and will introduce a more equitable distribution of funding for inward investment throughout Wales.
I know that political influences can come in to play, as I almost lost a plant in my constituency. I prefer not to give all the details, but I was called at the eleventh hour to try to save the plant. The persons running the plant were told that, if they relocated to Breconshire, everything would be fine and they would have all the money they needed. In Bala, they could not have it. It was only by sheer good fortune that I intervened. A local councillor in Bala rang me that evening, and, the following morning, that was reversed. There was an admission that some skulduggery was afoot, and I hope and pray that the assembly will ensure that that kind of nonsense will not recur.
Several of us campaigned for a change of direction in terms of funding of the agencies in Wales as there was an acknowledged imbalance between east and west.For example, the hon. Member for Swansea, East (Mr. Anderson) said last week that, for every £1 spent on job creation and inward investment in the Swansea area, £5.25 was spent in Cardiff. We now know that the WDA agreed to expend a moiety of its inward investment budget in the western areas of Wales. That was agreed last year, and sanctioned by the Welsh Office. That was announced and it was most welcome, especially to those of us who had campaigned for it.
However, it shows that different parts of Wales were dealt with differently. Following the LG announcement, the Welsh Development Agency and the Development Board for Rural Wales received savage cuts to their budget. To put it simply, some money had to be obtained to honour the cheque that was paid to bring in those new plants. There is great anxiety throughout Wales that such inward investment is brought in at too high a price--certainly at a very high price to rural Wales. In my view, that imbalance must be addressed, and I am sure that many hon. Members share my unease. We must all ensure that every part of Wales receives its fair share.
I always use the word "inclusiveness" in these debates. I always feel obliged to do so, as Ministers always do. If it is to mean anything, we must ensure that it means an equitable distribution of all moneys throughout Wales; I am sure that that will be a guiding principle of the national assembly.
However, rural Wales has extra problems, for the reasons that I have given, and because it is a far more difficult task to create growth in the small and medium sector than in large enterprises. We have the problems of remoteness. Infrastructure is inadequate. The sparsity factor is of great importance, and that translates into a higher cost of delivery of services, especially in remoter areas.
The Bill provides for the creation of a powerhouse--a new body which will be an amalgam of the Welsh Development Agency, the Development Board for Rural Wales and the Land Authority for Wales. That is acceptable, but the loss or dilution of the expertise that was possessed by the Development Board for Rural Wales should never be acceptable. Some of the worries in that sphere have been identified by many Welsh bodies in the past few months.
For example, the Country Landowners Association in Wales briefed various hon. Members a few months ago. I shall quote briefly from a letter that it wrote. The association questions whether the assembly's
7.30 pm
'(2A) After subsection (2) there shall be inserted--
"(2A) The Agency shall establish a department with the responsibility of drawing up and ensuring the implementation of, policies in furtherance of the purposes set out in subsection (2) appropriate to rural areas.".'.
'be transferred to the Welsh Development Agency.'.
"The functions of the Development Board for Rural Wales shall cease to exist."
The amendment is a probing amendment. I believe that the functions do exist, but I accept that, if it is meant in terms of functus officio, that it is a right and proper use of the word. I would prefer the Bill to refer to the transfer of those functions to the new body, which would secure the position. The Minister, being a Latin scholar, will no doubt deal with this point in due course--or perhaps not.
"procedure for determining and managing its spending priorities"
will recognise and protect the special needs of rural Wales. It questions whether there will be sufficient
"provisions to ensure that the advice of the regional committees will be heard in the Assembly".
It seeks an assurance that the enlarged new authority, having taken over the functions of the Development Board for Rural Wales,
"will address the particular needs of rural areas".
The association also sought assurances that the subject and executive Committees of the assembly and the board of the WDA would have rural representatives. That is very important.
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