Previous SectionIndexHome Page

Mr. Deputy Speaker: No hon. Member has a casual attitude to the business of this House.

New clause 19

Circumstances in which shooting is unsafe or impractical

'A person does not commit an offence under section 1(1) if he hunts any wild mammal with dogs on land where the owner or occupier thereof reasonably considers that such hunting is necessary in order to kill, control or disperse such mammals and either:--
(a) because the public have rights of access thereto or such land is in close proximity to a highway or public right of way or otherwise the owner or occupier reasonably considers it unsafe to kill or control such mammals by shooting, or
(b) the owner or occupier of such land reasonably considers that it is impractical to kill or control such mammals by shooting.'.--[Mr. Luff.]
Brought up, and read the First time.

Motion made, and Question put, That the clause be read a Second time:-- The House divided: Ayes 42, Noes 128.

13 Mar 1998 : Column 894

Division No. 211
[1.13 pm


Arbuthnot, James
Baldry, Tony
Boswell, Tim
Brooke, Rt Hon Peter
Chope, Christopher
Clarke, Rt Hon Kenneth
Colvin, Michael
Curry, Rt Hon David
Emery, Rt Hon Sir Peter
Fallon, Michael
Forth, Rt Hon Eric
Garnier, Edward
Gill, Christopher
Gray, James
Greenway, John
Grieve, Dominic
Hamilton, Rt Hon Sir Archie
Hawkins, Nick
Heald, Oliver
Heseltine, Rt Hon Michael
Hoey, Kate
Hogg, Rt Hon Douglas
Howarth, Gerald (Aldershot)
Johnson Smith,
Rt Hon Sir Geoffrey
Lansley, Andrew
Luff, Peter
Lyell, Rt Hon Sir Nicholas
McIntosh, Miss Anne
Maclean, Rt Hon David
Maginnis, Ken
Mates, Michael
Mawhinney, Rt Hon Sir Brian
Öpik, Lembit
Paterson, Owen
Robathan, Andrew
St Aubyn, Nick
Spring, Richard
Streeter, Gary
Taylor, Ian (Esher & Walton)
Tyrie, Andrew
Woodward, Shaun
Yeo, Tim

Tellers for the Ayes:

Mr. Edward Leigh and
Mr. Peter Atkinson.


Ainger, Nick
Ainsworth, Robert (Cov'try NE)
Anderson, Janet (Rossendale)
Atkins, Charlotte
Austin, John
Barnes, Harry
Benn, Rt Hon Tony
Bennett, Andrew F
Bermingham, Gerald
Bradley, Peter (The Wrekin)
Bradshaw, Ben
Brake, Tom
Brown, Rt Hon Nick (Newcastle E)
Buck, Ms Karen
Butler, Mrs Christine
Caplin, Ivor
Casale, Roger
Cawsey, Ian
Clapham, Michael
Clark, Rt Hon Dr David (S Shields)
Clark, Dr Lynda
(Edinburgh Pentlands)
Clarke, Tony (Northampton S)
Coaker, Vernon
Coffey, Ms Ann
Coleman, Iain
Cooper, Yvette
Corbyn, Jeremy
Corston, Ms Jean
Cousins, Jim
Cranston, Ross
Darvill, Keith
Davis, Terry (B'ham Hodge H)
Dobbin, Jim
Dobson, Rt Hon Frank
Dowd, Jim
Eagle, Angela (Wallasey)
Efford, Clive
Etherington, Bill
Fitzpatrick, Jim
Flint, Caroline
Foster, Michael J (Worcester)
Gale, Roger
Gapes, Mike
Gardiner, Barry
Gerrard, Neil
Gibson, Dr Ian
Gilroy, Mrs Linda
Godman, Norman A
Gordon, Mrs Eileen
Hall, Mike (Weaver Vale)
Hancock, Mike
Henderson, Ivan (Harwich)
Hill, Keith
Hughes, Kevin (Doncaster N)
Iddon, Dr Brian
Jackson, Ms Glenda (Hampstead)
Jackson, Helen (Hillsborough)
Johnson, Alan (Hull W & Hessle)
Jones, Dr Lynne (Selly Oak)
Keen, Ann (Brentford & Isleworth)
Kelly, Ms Ruth
Kennedy, Jane (Wavertree)
King, Andy (Rugby & Kenilworth)
King, Ms Oona (Bethnal Green)
Lawrence, Ms Jackie
Lepper, David
Love, Andrew
McCabe, Steve
McCafferty, Ms Chris
McDonagh, Siobhain
McFall, John
McIsaac, Shona
McNulty, Tony
MacShane, Denis
Mallaber, Judy
Marshall-Andrews, Robert
Martlew, Eric
Merron, Gillian
Michie, Bill (Shef'ld Heeley)
Miller, Andrew
Moffatt, Laura
Morgan, Ms Julie (Cardiff N)
Morley, Elliot
Mountford, Kali
Murphy, Paul (Torfaen)
Naysmith, Dr Doug
Norris, Dan
O'Brien, Mike (N Warks)
Olner, Bill
Palmer, Dr Nick
Perham, Ms Linda
Pickthall, Colin
Pike, Peter L
Pollard, Kerry
Prentice, Ms Bridget (Lewisham E)
Primarolo, Dawn
Prosser, Gwyn
Quinn, Lawrie
Rammell, Bill
Rapson, Syd
Raynsford, Nick
Ruane, Chris
Russell, Bob (Colchester)
Savidge, Malcolm
Sawford, Phil
Sedgemore, Brian
Shaw, Jonathan
Skinner, Dennis
Smith, Angela (Basildon)
Smith, Jacqui (Redditch)
Southworth, Ms Helen
Spellar, John
Stinchcombe, Paul
Taylor, Rt Hon Mrs Ann
Taylor, Sir Teddy
Thomas, Gareth R (Harrow W)
Timms, Stephen
Tipping, Paddy
Turner, Dr Desmond (Kemptown)
Twigg, Stephen (Enfield)
Vis, Dr Rudi
Walley, Ms Joan
Watts, David
Whitehead, Dr Alan
Wicks, Malcolm
Winnick, David
Winterton, Ms Rosie (Doncaster C)
Wright, Anthony D (Gt Yarmouth)

Tellers for the Noes:

Mr. John Heppell and
Mr. Kevin McNamara.

Question accordingly negatived.

13 Mar 1998 : Column 895

Mr. Peter Brooke (Cities of London and Westminster): On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I tried to catch your eye in the aftermath of the vote on new clause 18. I was one of those hon. Members with Northern Ireland experience who rose to speak at that stage. I make no complaint whatever about the closure, not least because the question that I wanted to ask was the last question asked by my right hon. Friend the shadow Home Secretary, but one of the consequences of your accepting the closure was that the Minister, who also rose, was unable to reply to that question. As it is a question of no little importance in the context of the Northern Ireland talks, I wonder whether, through you, I could ask the Minister to write to my right hon. Friend and place a copy in the Library.

Mr. Deputy Speaker: That is not a matter for the Chair, but perhaps the Minister has heard the right hon. Gentleman's comments.

Mr. Kenneth Clarke (Rushcliffe): On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. While the Minister is reflecting on that, may I ask whether you would allow a vote on new clause 20 if it were now to be moved formally? It was selected for debate by Madam Speaker and formed part of the subject matter of our longest debate so far today. I know that we have already had a debate on new clause 2, but the substance of new clause 20 is different, as the former would have allowed the activities defined in the Bill to be reduced by an order of the Secretary of State, whereas the latter would simply allow the definitions to be changed if they proved inaccurate. On that basis, I think that the opinion of the House should be tested, and I wonder whether you will allow a vote.

Mr. Hawkins rose--

Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order.

Mr. Hawkins: It is further to the point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. Let me answer the point of order.

13 Mar 1998 : Column 896

It is for the Chair to decide whether to allow a vote, and I have decided that we will not have a vote on the matter. We must move on to the next new clause.

New clause 21

Local Referendums

'.--(1) The provisions of this Act shall not apply in those parishes where a local referendum has been held and a simple majority of those voting support the continuation of hunting in their area.
(2) Referendums organised under this section will be financed by the hunt seeking permission to hunt in the area in question, and not from public funds.'.--[Mr. Öpik.]
Brought up, and read the First time.

Mr. Öpik: I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

Mr. Deputy Speaker: With this, it will be convenient to discuss amendment No. 97, in clause 14, page 5, line 34, leave out from 'force' to end of line 35 and insert

'upon the making of an order by the Secretary of State which shall be made by statutory instrument and shall not be made unless a draft has been approved by each House of Parliament.'.

Mr. Öpik: An earlier point of order cast aspersions on the reasons of the hon. Member for Worcester (Mr. Foster) for not voting in favour of the Northern Ireland changes. I take a more charitable view. At an early stage in the debate, the hon. Gentleman said that he was willing to take our position on board, and he eventually abstained. That shows that he changed his mind twice owing to the merits of the debates that he heard.

Next Section

IndexHome Page