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7.49 pm
The Minister of State, Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Mr. Jeff Rooker): By and large, the hon. Member for South-East Cambridgeshire (Mr. Paice) made an excellent speech. [Interruption.] I mean that. It was extremely thoughtful, especially at the start. Admittedly, later we got to the third way, but we could wholly agree with the requirements that he set out. I was not so sure that I could agree with him when he got on to the subject of rates, which has long been contentious. I remind him that agricultural land is not rated--an exemption which, one assumes, no one has ever costed. Nevertheless, it was an excellent speech.
That speech was in marked contrast to the opening speech by the right hon. Member for Fylde (Mr. Jack), but we all know that today he was the prize in a magazine contest. That was the result of his speech today. There was a litany of questions. Did anyone read last week's competition in Farmers Weekly? The winner of the competition received a speech from the right hon. Gentleman. He was first prize in a competition. It was not a fairly structured speech. The second prize would have been a winding-up speech by the right hon. Gentleman.
It has been an interesting debate. The occupants of the two Front Benches are not responsible for the time constraints--the usual channels and business managers agreed them--but we have had a fascinating debate. At one time, four hon. Members representing Shropshire were on their feet at once--two from each side of the House. At another time, no fewer than four hon. Members representing Cumbria were on their feet at once--two from each side of the House. Obviously, the idea that there is a monopoly of provision for, and representation of, rural areas is nonsense. That was the only remark by the hon. Member for South-East Cambridgeshire to which I took exception.
On Tuesday night--my right hon. Friend the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food and my hon. Friend the Member for Scunthorpe (Mr. Morley), the Parliamentary Secretary, were there--there was hardly any room in the Committee Room when we met the rural group of Labour Members of Parliament. The Room was packed to the gunwales with people with an interest in the rural economy, who believe that the rural economy extends beyond agriculture. That is a key factor.
Many hon. Members have made important points tonight. I shall try to respond to some of them, but it would be impossible to cover them all. My hon. Friend the Member for Carlisle (Mr. Martlew) kicked off by drawing attention to overgrazing on the fells. That behaviour contrasts with that of the people who, over the
millennia, have left us a massive, beautiful landscape, apparently managed and cultured to great success. As my hon. Friend said, obviously that is not the case throughout the country.
My hon. Friend was also the first person to raise the issue of animal welfare. It is impossible to divorce the issues of the CAP and its reform from the incredibly important but narrow issues of simple price support--including animal welfare issues.
The hon. Member for Ross, Skye and Inverness, West (Mr. Kennedy) demanded to know--unfairly, I thought--the decisions taken at the informal meeting of Agriculture Ministers at Newcastle last week, where, by definition, no decisions are reached. Like him, we do not, as a matter of policy, want a diminution of family farms--which is the way that some people would wish to drive it. He also, very fairly, pointed out that not all problems started in May 1997. We accept that farmers are going through a difficult time, but one must be absolutely realistic about the history of the problems that confront us today.
The right hon. Member for Skipton and Ripon (Mr. Curry) made a measured speech--in contrast to the bawling and shouting. He rightly pointed out that farmers were affected more than most by the strength of the pound because they were affected earlier than anyone else. I would be the first to say that all manufacturing industry is affected--I know that from constituency experience in Birmingham--but farmers are affected first, because of the operation of the green pound.
If I were to reply to all the points made in the speeches by my hon. Friend the Member for Shrewsbury and Atcham (Mr. Marsden) and the hon. Member for Mid-Worcestershire (Mr. Luff) I would take up all the remaining time, because they raised important issues on a range of CAP policy issues, including the cattle-tracing system, about which I shall say a few words. My hon. Friend said that we need to look at rural affairs in the round, not only from an agricultural perspective but from an environmental and social one.
I was on a farm yesterday--and indeed last week--and met not just farmers and country landowners, but those involved in the wider rural economy. My fellow Ministers and I visit farms regularly. We are in contact with, and listen to, people at the sharp end, not just in our Whitehall offices. We are very conscious that those people are keen to discuss wider rural affairs, not just the narrow agricultural aspects.
The hon. Member for Mid-Worcestershire, as Chairman of the Select Committee on Agriculture, referred to the valuable report that had been produced. This is not a love-in. The Government were able to respond because the Committee had produced a report that we did not wholly support but which was a credit to the Select Committee system. That is not to say that the Committee will produce such a good report every time, but it was a valuable contribution. I wish that forced reading of that report had been a requirement for speaking in the debate.
Many hon. Members mentioned the cattle industry, especially regarding the beef ban. The myth persists that this Government are responsible for the beef ban. We are responsible for legislating it, because the previous Government forgot to do so. There are aspects of the beef industry, however, to which we must pay special
attention, because any problem in our food industry, especially the beef industry, affects our capability to negotiate our way out of the ban.
Confidence in food is affected in many ways. In negotiating our way out of the ban, we have been affected by questions of quality in the slaughter industry and meat-cutting plants. We now have higher levels of inspection by the Meat Hygiene Service, and that confidence must be communicated to the European regulators. In addition, we now publish the hygiene scores of more than 1,000 red and white meat slaughterhouses.
The staff on that vital inspection work do it on behalf of the public as well as the industry, but I regret that there are continued instances of intimidation of meat hygiene staff to prevent them from carrying out their duties to protect public health. We--I hope that I speak for the whole House--will not tolerate the intimidation of veterinary surgeons and meat hygiene inspectors, carrying out their work in the slaughterhouses of this country.
We recently had the first successful prosecution for intimidation and assault on an official veterinary surgeon, carried out by Mr. R.B. Crowther at the plant of D.S. Cooper of Shelley Bank abattoir in Huddersfield against a female official veterinary surgeon in pursuance of her duties. We shall expose and prosecute on every possible occasion when intimidation of the people doing those jobs, in defence of the beef industry and food safety, is brought to the notice of the authorities. I give that pledge on behalf of--
It being three hours after the commencement of proceedings on the motion, Mr. Deputy Speaker put the Question, pursuant to Order [18 May].
The House divided: Ayes 151, Noes 230.
Tellers for the Ayes:
Tellers for the Noes:
Question accordingly negatived.
AYES
Ainsworth, Peter (E Surrey)
Amess, David
Ancram, Rt Hon Michael
Arbuthnot, James
Atkinson, David (Bour'mth E)
Atkinson, Peter (Hexham)
Baldry, Tony
Ballard, Mrs Jackie
Bercow, John
Blunt, Crispin
Boswell, Tim
Brady, Graham
Brazier, Julian
Brooke, Rt Hon Peter
Browning, Mrs Angela
Bruce, Ian (S Dorset)
Bruce, Malcolm (Gordon)
Burnett, John
Burns, Simon
Burstow, Paul
Butterfill, John
Cash, William
Chapman, Sir Sydney
(Chipping Barnet)
Chidgey, David
Chope, Christopher
Clappison, James
Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey
Collins, Tim
Colvin, Michael
Cotter, Brian
Cran, James
Curry, Rt Hon David
Davey, Edward (Kingston)
Davies, Quentin (Grantham)
Day, Stephen
Duncan Smith, Iain
Evans, Nigel
Faber, David
Fabricant, Michael
Fallon, Michael
Flight, Howard
Foster, Don (Bath)
Fowler, Rt Hon Sir Norman
Fox, Dr Liam
Fraser, Christopher
Garnier, Edward
Gibb, Nick
Gill, Christopher
Gillan, Mrs Cheryl
Goodlad, Rt Hon Sir Alastair
Gorrie, Donald
Gray, James
Green, Damian
Greenway, John
Grieve, Dominic
Gummer, Rt Hon John
Hamilton, Rt Hon Sir Archie
Hammond, Philip
Harvey, Nick
Hawkins, Nick
Hayes, John
Heath, David (Somerton & Frome)
Heathcoat-Amory, Rt Hon David
Hogg, Rt Hon Douglas
Horam, John
Howard, Rt Hon Michael
Howarth, Gerald (Aldershot)
Hughes, Simon (Southwark N)
Hunter, Andrew
Jack, Rt Hon Michael
Jackson, Robert (Wantage)
Jenkin, Bernard
Keetch, Paul
Kennedy, Charles (Ross Skye)
Key, Robert
King, Rt Hon Tom (Bridgwater)
Kirkbride, Miss Julie
Laing, Mrs Eleanor
Lait, Mrs Jacqui
Lansley, Andrew
Leigh, Edward
Letwin, Oliver
Lewis, Dr Julian (New Forest E)
Lidington, David
Lilley, Rt Hon Peter
Livsey, Richard
Loughton, Tim
Luff, Peter
MacGregor, Rt Hon John
McIntosh, Miss Anne
MacKay, Andrew
Maclean, Rt Hon David
McLoughlin, Patrick
Madel, Sir David
Malins, Humfrey
Maples, John
Mawhinney, Rt Hon Sir Brian
Michie, Mrs Ray (Argyll & Bute)
Moore, Michael
Moss, Malcolm
Nicholls, Patrick
Norman, Archie
Oaten, Mark
Ottaway, Richard
Page, Richard
Paice, James
Paterson, Owen
Prior, David
Randall, John
Redwood, Rt Hon John
Rendel, David
Robathan, Andrew
Robertson, Laurence (Tewk'b'ry)
Rowe, Andrew (Faversham)
Ruffley, David
Russell, Bob (Colchester)
St Aubyn, Nick
Sanders, Adrian
Sayeed, Jonathan
Shephard, Rt Hon Mrs Gillian
Simpson, Keith (Mid-Norfolk)
Soames, Nicholas
Spelman, Mrs Caroline
Spicer, Sir Michael
Spring, Richard
Stanley, Rt Hon Sir John
Steen, Anthony
Streeter, Gary
Swayne, Desmond
Syms, Robert
Taylor, Sir Teddy
Tonge, Dr Jenny
Townend, John
Tredinnick, David
Trend, Michael
Tyler, Paul
Tyrie, Andrew
Viggers, Peter
Wallace, James
Walter, Robert
Wardle, Charles
Waterson, Nigel
Wells, Bowen
Whitney, Sir Raymond
Whittingdale, John
Widdecombe, Rt Hon Miss Ann
Willetts, David
Willis, Phil
Wilshire, David
Woodward, Shaun
Yeo, Tim
Mr. Oliver Heald and
Mr. John M. Taylor.
NOES
Ainger, Nick
Ainsworth, Robert (Cov'try NE)
Alexander, Douglas
Allen, Graham
Anderson, Donald (Swansea E)
Atherton, Ms Candy
Atkins, Charlotte
Austin, John
Banks, Tony
Barnes, Harry
Bayley, Hugh
Beard, Nigel
Beckett, Rt Hon Mrs Margaret
Bell, Stuart (Middlesbrough)
Benton, Joe
Berry, Roger
Betts, Clive
Bradley, Keith (Withington)
Bradley, Peter (The Wrekin)
Bradshaw, Ben
Brinton, Mrs Helen
Brown, Rt Hon Gordon
(Dunfermline E)
Brown, Rt Hon Nick (Newcastle E)
Buck, Ms Karen
Burden, Richard
Burgon, Colin
Byers, Stephen
Campbell, Alan (Tynemouth)
Campbell, Mrs Anne (C'bridge)
Campbell, Ronnie (Blyth V)
Cann, Jamie
Caplin, Ivor
Chapman, Ben (Wirral S)
Chaytor, David
Clark, Paul (Gillingham)
Clarke, Charles (Norwich S)
Clelland, David
Coaker, Vernon
Coffey, Ms Ann
Colman, Tony
Cooper, Yvette
Corbett, Robin
Corbyn, Jeremy
Corston, Ms Jean
Cox, Tom
Crausby, David
Cryer, Mrs Ann (Keighley)
Cryer, John (Hornchurch)
Cunningham, Rt Hon Dr John
(Copeland)
Dafis, Cynog
Darling, Rt Hon Alistair
Darvill, Keith
Davey, Valerie (Bristol W)
Davies, Rt Hon Denzil (Llanelli)
Davies, Geraint (Croydon C)
Davis, Terry (B'ham Hodge H)
Dawson, Hilton
Denham, John
Dobbin, Jim
Dobson, Rt Hon Frank
Doran, Frank
Dowd, Jim
Drew, David
Eagle, Angela (Wallasey)
Edwards, Huw
Efford, Clive
Ellman, Mrs Louise
Ennis, Jeff
Etherington, Bill
Field, Rt Hon Frank
Fisher, Mark
Fitzpatrick, Jim
Flint, Caroline
Follett, Barbara
Foster, Rt Hon Derek
Foster, Michael Jabez (Hastings)
Foster, Michael J (Worcester)
Gapes, Mike
Gardiner, Barry
George, Bruce (Walsall S)
Gerrard, Neil
Gibson, Dr Ian
Godman, Dr Norman A
Godsiff, Roger
Gordon, Mrs Eileen
Grant, Bernie
Grocott, Bruce
Grogan, John
Hall, Patrick (Bedford)
Hanson, David
Healey, John
Hepburn, Stephen
Heppell, John
Hesford, Stephen
Hewitt, Ms Patricia
Hill, Keith
Hoon, Geoffrey
Hope, Phil
Howarth, George (Knowsley N)
Howells, Dr Kim
Hughes, Ms Beverley (Stretford)
Hughes, Kevin (Doncaster N)
Hutton, John
Iddon, Dr Brian
Illsley, Eric
Jackson, Ms Glenda (Hampstead)
Jenkins, Brian
Johnson, Alan (Hull W & Hessle)
Johnson, Miss Melanie
(Welwyn Hatfield)
Jones, Mrs Fiona (Newark)
Jones, Helen (Warrington N)
Jones, Dr Lynne (Selly Oak)
Jowell, Ms Tessa
Kaufman, Rt Hon Gerald
Keeble, Ms Sally
Keen, Alan (Feltham & Heston)
Kelly, Ms Ruth
Kemp, Fraser
Kennedy, Jane (Wavertree)
Khabra, Piara S
Kidney, David
Kilfoyle, Peter
Kingham, Ms Tess
Kumar, Dr Ashok
Laxton, Bob
Lepper, David
Leslie, Christopher
Lewis, Ivan (Bury S)
Linton, Martin
Livingstone, Ken
Lloyd, Tony (Manchester C)
Lock, David
Love, Andrew
McAvoy, Thomas
McCabe, Steve
McCafferty, Ms Chris
McCartney, Ian (Makerfield)
McDonagh, Siobhain
McDonnell, John
Mackinlay, Andrew
McNamara, Kevin
MacShane, Denis
Mactaggart, Fiona
McWalter, Tony
Mallaber, Judy
Marsden, Gordon (Blackpool S)
Marsden, Paul (Shrewsbury)
Martlew, Eric
Merron, Gillian
Michael, Alun
Michie, Bill (Shef'ld Heeley)
Milburn, Alan
Miller, Andrew
Mitchell, Austin
Moffatt, Laura
Moran, Ms Margaret
Morley, Elliot
Morris, Ms Estelle (B'ham Yardley)
Morris, Rt Hon John (Aberavon)
Mudie, George
Mullin, Chris
Norris, Dan
O'Brien, Mike (N Warks)
O'Hara, Eddie
Organ, Mrs Diana
Pearson, Ian
Pendry, Tom
Pike, Peter L
Plaskitt, James
Pollard, Kerry
Pond, Chris
Pope, Greg
Prentice, Ms Bridget (Lewisham E)
Primarolo, Dawn
Purchase, Ken
Quin, Ms Joyce
Radice, Giles
Rammell, Bill
Raynsford, Nick
Reed, Andrew (Loughborough)
Reid, Dr John (Hamilton N)
Robinson, Geoffrey (Cov'try NW)
Roche, Mrs Barbara
Rooker, Jeff
Rooney, Terry
Ross, Ernie (Dundee W)
Ruane, Chris
Russell, Ms Christine (Chester)
Ryan, Ms Joan
Salter, Martin
Sawford, Phil
Sedgemore, Brian
Sheerman, Barry
Sheldon, Rt Hon Robert
Singh, Marsha
Skinner, Dennis
Smith, Rt Hon Andrew (Oxford E)
Smith, Angela (Basildon)
Smith, Rt Hon Chris (Islington S)
Smith, Miss Geraldine
(Morecambe & Lunesdale)
Snape, Peter
Soley, Clive
Spellar, John
Squire, Ms Rachel
Starkey, Dr Phyllis
Steinberg, Gerry
Stewart, Ian (Eccles)
Stuart, Ms Gisela
Sutcliffe, Gerry
Swinney, John
Taylor, Rt Hon Mrs Ann
(Dewsbury)
Taylor, Ms Dari (Stockton S)
Thomas, Gareth R (Harrow W)
Todd, Mark
Touhig, Don
Turner, Dennis (Wolverh'ton SE)
Twigg, Stephen (Enfield)
Vis, Dr Rudi
Walley, Ms Joan
Ward, Ms Claire
White, Brian
Whitehead, Dr Alan
Wicks, Malcolm
Williams, Alan W (E Carmarthen)
Winterton, Ms Rosie (Doncaster C)
Wood, Mike
Woolas, Phil
Wright, Anthony D (Gt Yarmouth)
Wright, Dr Tony (Cannock)
Wyatt, Derek
Janet Anderson and
Mr. David Jamieson.
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