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Mr. Crispin Blunt (Reigate): Will the Minister give way?

Mr. Henderson: I shall press on, because I have taken a lot of the House's time.

Mr. Frank Cook (Stockton, North): Will my hon. Friend give way?

Mr. Henderson: I am sorry; I am not going to give way any more.

Many hon. Members have asked about their constituencies. I make it clear again that I will receive a proposal shortly, and the Government will return to the House with a statement when a decision has been reached.

I want to refer briefly to a further matter in relation to our reserves. I reassure the hon. Member for Gosport (Mr. Viggers) on the points that he made in yesterday's debate: the value of the hospital in his constituency is much appreciated. There is a need for a review of medical facilities generally. An implementation team is considering what needs to be done, and the House will know of the responsibilities when a decision has been reached on that.

The strategic defence review highlighted the great importance of medical reserves. It recommended an increase of 2,000 reservists, bringing the total reserves required to nearly 7,400. Hon. Members will recall that we inherited a difficult situation in defence medical services. We found, as the Defence Committee said in its response to the SDR, that there were too few people, too few resources and, I would add, too little encouragement to those who deliver the service. We have recognised the imbalance, and are considering how we can best implement change to address those shortcomings.

The SDR was, from the outset, an open and thorough process. In the short time that I have been Minister for the Armed Forces, people have told me time and again that the review is welcomed, for it addresses the real issues about effective defence at this time of change. Nowhere has it avoided or ducked a difficult choice or an awkward decision. Throughout, we have faced up squarely to difficulties, and have sought and, I believe found practical ways forward.

I agree with the Defence Committee that the result is a finely balanced package, but it is an efficient and an effective package. We should not lose sight of what it contains: forces that are genuinely capable, deployable and sustainable; real ability to project force, should we

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need to; major improvements in procurement that will pay enormous dividends in the long term; and a policy for the people who make defence work.

History is littered with armies that were prepared to fight the previous war. It is my belief that, in contrast, the strategic defence review provides a clear and sensible vision for the future and for the long term. Implementation will, of course, be a challenge--we should expect nothing less from such a significant exercise--but the result will be the delivery of capability to protect this country and its people and a force for good in the world. I believe absolutely that that is right, and I am proud to commend it to the House.

5.12 pm

Mr. Robert Key (Salisbury): I warmly welcome the Minister for the Armed Forces to the Dispatch Box. He will find that, although the number of hon. Members involved in defence may be modest, the quality of debate is high and everyone who takes part in these debates is totally committed to the military. Indeed, it is important to stress that we all understand that military personnel and civil servants hold all political views and none. It is easier to agree with the Minister's party now that it has abandoned unilateralism and embraced the nuclear deterrent and all parties support our military. That must not prevent the Opposition, however, from fulfilling our constitutional role--nor will it.

I congratulate the Minister on his speech. I wish that he had said something about budgets or procurement, but he cannot say it all, and nor can I, so we shall return to many of these points.

The Minister has the most precious resource to nurture--all our people who serve the Crown, in or out of uniform. I welcome the decision announced yesterday by the Secretary of State to bring uniforms back on to our streets. They have been sorely missed for many years. When I was a child, Army and all service uniforms were part of the scenery in Salisbury, and it was regrettable that that had to cease for security reasons. I have spoken about that many times in the House, but mean it none the less now. There will be a beneficial effect on recruitment, increased respect for the military among the civilian community, and a new sense of responsibility on the part of the military.

I pay tribute to the Minister's predecessor, the right hon. Member for Hamilton, North and Bellshill (Dr. Reid). The defence community holds him in affection as well as respect. Many have said that we have not seen the last of him in defence matters, but I am sure that it will be a long time before the Secretary of State is replaced by his right hon. Friend.

Speaker after speaker yesterday, and intervention after intervention today, touched a raw nerve in respect of the reserves and the Territorial Army--a very raw nerve indeed, especially in Scotland. Special pleading is entirely justified, and I commend the patient way in which the Minister listened to several special cases. I make a special

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case for my TA centre at Old Sarum, which is the home of B squadron, Royal Wessex Yeomanry--all that is left of the old Wiltshire regiment.

Mr. Menzies Campbell: The rotten borough.

Mr. Key: No, not the rotten borough--I hear the hon. and learned Gentleman. If he insists upon it, I can go into the fact that my constituency had eight Members of Parliament at one time in our history, but let us quickly draw a veil over that. The Wiltshire regiment was a unique institution, and I am the only hon. Member who, at noon on the day after polling, has to ascend the balcony of the White Hart in Salisbury and sing the marching song of the regiment, "The Vly be on the Turnap"--but we shall spare the hon. and learned Gentleman that as well.

Spin-doctoring the Government's cuts in the TA simply will not wash. The cold war ended. In line with our allies, we reduced our forces substantially. It was a painful business. Those actions cannot be used as either a reason or an excuse for the current cuts in the TA. These cuts stand alone as a monument to the power of the Treasury and the weakness of the Ministry of Defence.

The Secretary of State got the closest yet to revealing a hidden agenda, when he said yesterday that he wanted the TA to be


If that is a euphemism for abolishing it as we know it, that is an argument that we should hear; but Ministers should not try to spin all this away.

The Minister for the Armed Forces knows that a lot of questions have been asked, and we cannot possibly expect the Under-Secretary to answer them all tonight, but I courteously ask the Minister to ensure that serious questions are answered in correspondence. I am sure that his officials will be taking note. As he knows, there is knockabout politics, and serious politics and accountability to the House. Generally, defence debates are about serious politics and accountability, so I hope that we will have answers.

In September, I had the privilege of attending a number of defence-oriented activities, and I emphasise how grateful the Opposition are to the Government for providing access to a wide range of the MOD's activities. That is important if the military is to understand that we are all on side. I visited the Farnborough air show and was immensely proud of our aerospace companies. I visited HMS Invincible for a sea day; and while on the subject of aircraft carriers, I should like to return briefly to yesterday's exchanges.

The hon. Member for Barrow and Furness (Mr. Hutton) asked for a specific commitment to the time scale. He said that


and hoped that


    "the Minister will be able to say that the Government remain committed to that time scale".--[Official Report, 19 October 1998; Vol. 317, c. 971-1025.]

The Minister replied that there was no change in the Government's commitment--we were pleased with that, because we want the aircraft carriers--but he did not specifically mention the in-service date. That is important, and I ask the Minister to confirm that date in his winding-up speech. I hope that he will be able to do so.

Mr. John Smith (Vale of Glamorgan): Does that mean that the hon. Member for Stratford-on-Avon

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(Mr. Maples) will now withdraw what he said yesterday? By implying that the building of the aircraft carriers would not go ahead, he has caused much consternation among service personnel in the Royal Navy. It is outrageous.

Mr. Key: My hon. Friend will speak for himself, but the importance of the matter that he raised is not in doubt. I support my hon. Friend entirely in pursuing this matter today.

It was not the previous Government's policy to announce a major procurement programme--such programmes do not get much bigger than the building of two new aircraft carriers--and afterwards advertise in the contracts journal to see whether further special refits would do instead. When those studies are completed, what will happen if the answer is that refits will do nicely for years to come? The Treasury will say that the new carriers must be postponed. Thus the Government's position needs tidying up, and I hope that we can support what the Minister says tonight.

I also visited Barrow and Furness. I pay tribute to the remarks that the hon. Member for Barrow and Furness made last night. He was absolutely spot on in commending the virtues of his work force. I was immensely impressed not only with the company that I visited but with the quality of the work force--its adaptability, the lack of restrictive practices and the fact that it was multi-skilled. It was an object lesson. It is hard to understand why anyone in the world thinks that they can beat companies in this country that are making such a huge impression.

HMS Vengeance was a treat. It was a real surprise to discover just how fine that ship is. The work force should be extremely proud. The work force on the two amphibious assault ships and on the tanker can similarly be extremely proud of their work. That is cutting-edge technology, and we all have much to learn from it.

I also visited British Aerospace at Warton, where the Eurofighter 2000 export known as Typhoon is being built. I happened to be there when the two last-ever new Tornado aircraft took off. That was quite a sight, with thousands of the work force out on the tarmac to see it. However, the mid-life update of the Tornados continues, as does the construction of Hawks. The design technology there is world beating.

I went on to Broughton to visit British Aerospace making Airbus wings, and many other wings. It is another success story, with new apprentices being taken on. I also visited the Territorial Army at Old Sarum and witnessed eight nights' training there. Obviously, given my constituency, I am constantly aware of the Army's activity on the Salisbury Plain training area, and of the Defence Testing and Evaluation Organisation at Boscombe Down, where daily the C130J Hercules circle over my constituency.

It might be helpful to clear up one or two misconceptions about the C130J Hercules. It is true to say that it is late, which is not acceptable, but it has flown a total of some 5,000 hours and the first C130J has been delivered to Boscombe Down for military aircraft release. Work is now well under way, as my constituents keep telling me. We should be cautious about dismissing the industrial importance of the C130J to the United Kingdom. There are 47 British companies in the C130J

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industrial support group. They have generated£475 million in C130J earnings thus far and accounted for 20,000 man years of work.

The Conservative Government were justifiably proud of their record on defence procurement under a series of distinguished Secretaries of State. The Labour Government should not be surprised that we guard their reputations as we observe the fruits of their decisions in the hands of current Ministers. My hon. Friend the shadow Secretary of State has said that we welcome much in the strategic defence review. The Secretary of State is keen to point out that the chiefs of staff have given public and private support to the SDR.

The chiefs of staff have my public and private support for their professional judgment. They and all their staff have done a magnificent job. Nothing will convince us that the SDR's fate was ultimately not in the hands of the Treasury, but I am confident that all three services have used the SDR to undertake a genuine root-and-branch review. I pay tribute to them for that.

Many, but not all, of the questions have been asked; many, but not all, of the conclusions have been reached. The SDR's publication last July was the beginning, not the end, of the process, and time is not standing still.

The SDR has developed a comprehensive list of broad missions and military tasks to form a basis for defence planning. Clearly, the strategic environment is different today--there is no cold war threat to the United Kingdom and we do not foresee the re-emergence of such a threat. However, we cannot take that for granted, and the review proposes to put the forces in the front line. It says that we are not to


Rightly so, but before we go abroad to do good we must acknowledge that bad can come to us. Before we embark on the "force for good" adventure, we must understand when determining our defence policy that our vital interests are to protect British territory, borders and air space, and British citizens and interests around the world.

Did the SDR do enough to deal with the asymmetric threat, for example? I see little evidence that it did. I am aware of the new threats that we face--the exploitation of cyber-weapons, for example, could be used to bring the war home by attacking the national strategic infrastructure, which is rapidly exploiting information technology in the name of economic efficiency.

Why even think about biological and chemical warfare--the "poor man's nuclear bomb"? We must do so because it is unlikely that our possible opponents will confront us directly. CB weapons are inexpensive and accessible, and can be delivered by warheads on missiles or by covert agents, terrorists or even madmen. Like our allies who are dealing with the issue, we are vulnerable to such attacks. That is why I warmly welcome the Secretary of State's announcement yesterday that he will shortly report fully to the House on the conclusions of his review on the risk that biological and chemical weapons pose to our troops overseas. His next step should be to encourage a more open and focused debate on the nuclear, chemical and biological threat at home in the civilian community.

Civil defence is entering a new era of significance. I pay tribute to the unsung work of our county emergency planning officers. What progress are the Ministry of

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Defence and other agencies making in assessing, testing and fixing the year 2000 problem? The MOD has been assiduously addressing the problem since 1995, and in 1996 the Central Computer and Telecommunications Agency drew up a programme that set specific targets for all Departments. I should be grateful if the House could have answers--all in good time--to four specific questions.

We all know that there is a problem with recruiting and retaining specialist staff. What is the extent of the shortage of skilled, in-house staff in the Ministry of Defence? Is it true that there is evidence of staff wastage from the Ministry of Defence to industry? We know that that is true of front-line pilots, but is it equally true of those staff?

Can the Minister assure us that all the critical systems will be compliant by the end of 1999? Can he identify non-critical systems that will not be? Last month, in the quarterly return of the departmental year 2000 plans, the permanent under-secretary emphasised that the MOD might need to delay or stop important activities or projects while attention or resources were focused on the year 2000 issue. What activities or projects have been identified as frozen or cancelled? It is important not just for the Opposition but for those outside in industry to have specific information.

We are certainly not short of missions. For four years, our troops have made a major contribution to NATO in Bosnia and Herzegovina. Incidentally, their contribution has been to the peace implementation force, not to the intervention force as page 15 of the SDR says. In order to deploy our men and women, we need to keep them well trained and to retain them in the services. Let us take for example the fast-jet pilots in the RAF. Experienced flight lieutenants and squadron leaders approaching the age of 38 are constant prey for the civil airlines.

Our pilots always do what we ask of them, as they should. They proved their record in the Gulf and in Bosnia. In Kosovo they are part of the verification force. However, our ability to continue to meet the challenge of Bosnias to come rests on recruiting and retaining those pilots. We can help to do so through access to affordable and adequate housing, improving support for their families, providing access to high-quality health care, and introducing retirement benefits. Issuing short-term contracts might help to keep pilots who are unwilling to make a long-term commitment.

I am sure that, like our allies, the Government are getting to grips with the problems. We should like them to share their progress with us.

Front-line pilots continue to feel bruised by the injustice of the Ministry of Defence line on the crash of Chinook ZD576 on the Mull of Kintyre. Members of Parliament from all parties who have taken up this cause were not surprised by the latest stonewalling by the Minister for the Armed Forces at the end of September. Nothing has changed, and I shall continue to seek to redress this injustice. Ministers should know that loyal, serving and retired RAF personnel remain as unhappy as I am.

The Minister's arguments have led to technical and professional counter-arguments. It is not possible to say that there can be no doubt about the cause of that crash.

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Of course there is doubt. The RAF should think again. I am grateful to the Secretary of State for his offer of a further meeting, which we shall no doubt accept.

Earlier this year we had a debate on the Royal Air Force, and I look forward to the other single service debates. I spoke of the loyalty of wives and families of RAF personnel. During the summer, the Association of RAF Wives was put under increasing pressure. Its head office had to close over the summer months owing to lack of funding.

There also seems to be an attitude problem. Something is wrong if, at an RAF station, the officer commanding the personnel management services--the appropriate contact--refuses to meet or speak to representatives of the Association of RAF Wives. Do Ministers have a problem with the association, or is it that its patron is our independent colleague, the hon. Member for Tatton (Mr. Bell)? Only this morning, I heard from the association that the publishers of its magazine had called to say that they had been warned of closure. Ministers refused to include the association in the website that they so proudly announced because of those rumours. I invite them to address that issue urgently.

Military families warmly welcome the SDR proposal for a families task force, especially as they have now heard about the proposal for a families forum with access to the Minister. I too warmly welcome that measure.

This time last year, prompted by the excellent Army Families Federation, I raised the issue of the problems affecting Army families which can be resolved only by interdepartmental co-operation. I regret to report that, almost a year later, there is still no progress on four important areas. First, there is the problem thrown up by the jobseeker's allowance, which puts the working wives of service personnel at a disadvantage. It is no good the Government crowing about the new deal if service families are excluded.

Secondly, a significant number of children of service families are excluded from university grants if their families have followed the flag for many years. I was pleased to note what the Minister said about that. I am glad that the Department for Education and Employment will be sensitive, but I respectfully suggest that being sensitive is not enough if the problem is not resolved for the dependants of service men and women.

Thirdly, it remains impossible for military personnel to maintain their NHS dental registration when they are posted overseas. On their return, they must start all over again. Surely that is a straightforward administrative matter, and an item for the agenda of the first meeting of the new families forum.

Fourthly, back in the spring, the Army Families Federation went to Leeds to meet the NHS executive, which promised to deal with the problem of forces families who are posted after they have seen a consultant: they lose their place on NHS waiting lists and have to start all over again. Will Ministers please address that problem urgently? I know that it is a matter of detail for Ministers, but for service men and their families it is of very great importance.


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