Examination of Witness (Questions 160 - 179)
TUESDAY 19 MAY 1998
PROFESSOR H F WOODS
160. But have you been asked by anybody to look at these
other, if you like, food supplements or vitamins or dietary additives?
(Professor Woods) We are currently looking at one
dietary additive or we are about to look at one. We have never
looked at ginseng and have not been asked so to do, but in terms
of the other vitamin that you mentioned, namely folic acid, some
of the members of the Committee on Toxicity are, as you know,
going to be members or are now members of the expert group on
vitamins and minerals.
161. And you may, therefore, be looking at folic acid?
(Professor Woods) We will certainly be looking at
folic acid, yes.
Mr Todd
162. As a scientist, how would you assess the relative risk
of taking something like B6 which you have studied in the quantities
that have been marketed against, say, too much salt?
(Professor Woods) Well, sir, you have lighted on two
very controversial subjects.
163. I do try!
(Professor Woods) Vitamin B6 is controversial and
that is why I am sitting here, I believe, and indeed the effect
of salt in the diet is also a controversial matter. I am aware
of the recent publicity, particularly following a statement by
one of the professors from St George's Hospital, but again there
are experts in this country who do not agree in relation to the
effect of salt and the risk of salt in relation particularly to
cardiovascular disease.
164. Let us take an example which I think most people would
agree upon which is the consumption of alcohol. I think we have
probably run through the hoops on that in scientific terms and
it is a bad thing in excess. Would you expect to be reviewing
the consumption of alcohol as an important toxic matter?
(Professor Woods) We have done, sir, because, as part
of the Chief Medical Officer's assessment of alcohol, I think
it was, some two years ago, we were asked to review the evidence
relating to the toxicity of ethanol in development and during
pregnancy.
165. With what effect?
(Professor Woods) Well, we came to the conclusion,
and it is in the annex of the CMO's Report, that with the exception
of certain well-defined alcohol-related syndromes in the new-born,
clearly the effect of excess alcohol in pregnancy should be avoided.
The Committee was suspended from 4.35 pm to 4.50 pm for
a division in the House.
Chairman: Professor Woods, you were in the middle of answering
Mr Todd.
Mr Todd
166. You were telling me about alcohol and your Committee's
deliberations on that subject and its outcome.
(Professor Woods) Well, the outcome was a publication,
as I said, which was the responsibility of the Chief Medical Officer.
The advice on alcohol consumption that occurred in that document
was the product of the Chief Medical Officer's group. We only
gave an opinion in relation to the effect of ethanol on development
and pregnancy and that was a verbal, not a numerical, opinion.
167. Which I would imagine was that this was not a particularly
good thing to be consuming in large quantities when pregnant.
(Professor Woods) Exactly.
Mr Todd: So when I go into my off licence, what effect do
I notice?
Mr Mitchell: It is when you come out!
Mr Todd
168. The packaging of the goods appears identical and there
does not seem to be any warning carried on any bottles or anything
of that kind.
(Professor Woods) Well, you ask me a very difficult
question, sir, in the way that you phrase it because, as a medical
practitioner, I cannot give you any advice in this regard as an
individual, but I accept that if I buy or if you buy a bottle
of gin, it does not, I understand, have a warning on the label.
169. Yes, that is right, but what your Committee has suggested
in this particular case is that the quantities that are made available
over the counter are kept at a very small level and with debate
further on over the science and exactly the meaning of that, and
that in larger quantities it should be available either through
a pharmacist or, in bigger quantities still, through a doctor.
I assume your Committee did not suggest this process for alcohol?
(Professor Woods) No, sir, it did not because it was
not asked the question.
170. If it had been, would you have said that?
(Professor Woods) I cannot speculate as to what the
answer of the Committee would be because I have not consulted
the Committee and the Committee has not debated this matter.
171. But do you not accept a degree of inconsistency in the
process here, that with alcohol, or we could have chosen cigarettes
as the most obvious example again, you are taking steps to suggest
the regulation of package sizes and the means of dispersal and
sale to a customer in this particular area when there are far
greater risks that are readily available over the counter without
any restrictions, warnings or whatever?
(Professor Woods) I must repeat, Mr Todd, that we
are not making the regulations. The Minister makes the regulations.
172. But you did make the recommendation.
(Professor Woods) We gave advice to the Minister on
the basis of our assessment of the data relating to the toxicology
of vitamin B6, particularly vitamin B6 taken in quantities substantially
greater than that which is the normal dietary daily requirement.
173. And, sadly, that is of course what a lot of people do
with alcohol, is it not?
(Professor Woods) They do indeed.
174. They take quantities substantially greater than would
seem wise.
(Professor Woods) They do.
Mrs Organ
175. I just wanted to clarify that, that you were asked to
look at the levels of intake, the size of intake, in the way that
with alcohol you were not asked to consider whether people should
take a dose of a bottle or a fifth of a gill or whatever it is?
Is that right?
(Professor Woods) No, we were asked to pass an opinion
as to the toxicology of vitamin B6 and, in order so to do, the
Committee has to do in that case what it does in other cases and
that is look at the information, particularly information that
links or provides evidence for the association, if there is one,
between the dose or the intake and an effect if an adverse or
toxic effect can be identified.
176. And were you asked to look at the toxicology of alcohol?
(Professor Woods) We were asked to look at the toxic
effects of alcohol in relation to development in utero
and also the effects on the woman during pregnancy.
Mr Mitchell
177. Of course the toxic effects of alcohol are related to
the amount drunk, are they not, but let us leave that point aside.
I want to get back to nutrition. You told me how many of your
Committee are nutritionally qualified and I said how nice for
them, but in fact of course their nutritional qualifications have
nothing to do with the evaluation of B6 and why you are looking
at its toxicity. Was the examination of B6 coloured in any way
by any assessment of its nutritional claims?
(Professor Woods) The nutritional aspects of vitamin
B6 have to be part of the deliberations of the Committee.
178. Why?
(Professor Woods) Because the Committee must know,
needs to know and should know the normal daily requirements in
order to give a benchmark in relation to the ingestion of amounts
which are very much greater than that.
179. But that is intake, not nutritional value.
(Professor Woods) Well, if you want to discuss, Mr
Mitchell, the nature of vitamin action of vitamin B6, certainly
I can do so.
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