Examination of Witnesses
(Questions 120 - 139)
THURSDAY 22 OCTOBER 1998
MR MARK
WOOD, MR
STEWART PURVIS,
AND MR
RICHARD TAIT
120. I do not disagree with your strategy, and
congratulate you on it. What I am trying to ask is, as Britain
is projected abroad we did have a BBC World Service, which is
still a fantastic service but, because they tried to make a television
version of that and failed, we have not taken on CNN or Fox or
CBS and therefore, because it is important to us culturally, do
you think there is any value in ITN and the BBC World Service
coming together to make sure we have the critical mass so that
image is projected better overseas?
(Mr Purvis) I do not think so. The reason for it is
that our international news channel, Euro News, is a very different
proposition from BBC World. We stress the advantage of language,
we transmit in five and at certain times six languages, because
we think it is a rather old-fashioned British belief that the
world wants to sit and watch television to practise its English,
particularly in parts of continental Europe where English is not
spoken as widely as we would like to think. The BBC has taken
a different view in television, which is that it is producing
in a sense the equivalent of the World Service on radio and is
not producing anything in any other languages, and therefore the
two are rather diverse, and I find it difficult to see how they
could work together. We have talked a lot about CNN but certainly
in the heartlands of France and Germany, where we are competing
head-to-head with CNN, we get more viewers on Euro News than CNN
does. CNN gets more publicity but we actually have more people
watching, and that perhaps is a sense of what is actually happening
in some of the continental European markets where language is
a bigger issue than it is in the UK.
(Mr Wood) If I may add, it is very hard to make a
profit with a news channel.
121. It certainly is.
(Mr Wood) Therefore one has to tread with caution
in this area and one needs strong partnerships. So your question
is an interesting one from that point of view.
122. It is doubtful whether CNN have actually
made a profit. They may make it on paper.
(Mr Wood) They make a good profit from subscriptions
in particular in the United States, which is one way the market
works very well for established players like CNN and CNAC. It
is much harder overseas.
Mr Fraser
123. Is there any political interference or
involvement jeopardising your position as an independent news
organisers at all?
(Mr Purvis) I am sorry?
124. Is there any political involvement or political
questioning going on behind the scenes about what is going on
in ITN?
(Mr Purvis) None at all, but Richard is the editor-in-chief
and he should answer.
(Mr Tait) No.
125. Can you perhaps, Mr Tait, tell us, if you
can, how many times 10 Downing Street apparently `phones you before
the 10 o'clock news of an evening with their comments?
(Mr Tait) Me personally?
126. You and your office.
(Mr Tait) Me personally, I have not spoken to 10 Downing
Street since the election ahead of the 10 o'clock news.
127. And nobody in your office—
(Mr Tait) Contact would normally be between the political
staff at Westminster, as with the offices of the other political
parties.
128. You have not been lobbied by any press
officers?
(Mr Tait) Since the election, when I had a lot of
calls, it has been very quiet.
129. It has been very quiet. You have not been
lobbied by any press officers about your decision about changing
the 10 o'clock news scheduling?
(Mr Tait) No.
130. Do you feel there is a duty to protect
serious broadcasting of both domestic and world affairs?
(Mr Tait) Absolutely.
131. All of you?
(Mr Purvis) Yes. I think Richard speaks best on this,
he is the most able and competent on this.
(Mr Tait) Our commitment to a high quality news agenda
is simply not negotiable. The proposals which ITV have made, if
they go ahead, will not result in us reducing our coverage of
operations around the world, and will not reduce our commitment
to specialist journalism or retaining a powerful political unit
at Westminster, to covering events in Wales and Scotland as the
political developments there take place. We have been assured,
as you heard earlier, by ITV that they want to see the same quality
and range of journalism which currently is seen on News at
Ten on the other programmes that they are proposing.
132. Given the fact you are responsible for
News at Ten and Channel 4 News and Big Breakfast,
can you tell me something about the style and content guidelines
or criteria set down for all of those, because they are quite
distinctly different one from another?
(Mr Tait) I think that shows perhaps what a unique
organisation ITN is, because, as Stewart was discussing earlier,
most news organisations are the news division of a broadcaster—ABC
News works for only ABC, BBC News works only for the BBC. We have
a range of customers. Big Breakfast wants a popular news
programme of interest to the predominantly young people watching
at that time, who are interested in music, sport, and they are
interested in the rest of the agenda but not as much as, say,
the audience watching Channel 4 News, which would expect
very detailed and serious analysis of a full international agenda.
So we tailor the editorial content and style of the programme
to what we believe the audience at that time expects and wishes,
but we have a core set of values of impartiality, integrity, straight
dealing with the people we deal with, meeting our licence requirements
with due impartiality. In a sense my job is to ensure that although
we make programmes for a great range of broadcasters, they all
meet the same editorial standards and quality.
133. Do you think that regional broadcasts of
news are going to be the losers if you change the schedule, given
the fact they do follow on from the 5.40 and the 10 o'clock news
as it currently stands?
(Mr Purvis) I think there is a balance, as Mr Eyre
said earlier. They are going to be better off in the earlier part
of the evening, where they are going to go first before the national
news, and in the later part of the evening they are going to be
on at a later time than they are at present. So it is anyone's
judgment how those two factors balance out. Certainly we know
from the passion which is sometimes aroused about who is going
to go first on a story that they would welcome the opportunity
of having a clear run before the national news to do regional
stories in full.
134. Do you agree with the comments passed earlier
by Mr Eyre, who suggested that young and up-market is more in
favour than old and down-market?
(Mr Purvis) Mr Eyre has very good contacts with the
advertisers, and I am sure he has formed those views accurately.
135. No comment!
(Mr Wood) I did not understand him to be saying that
in quite that regard actually. There are always drivers. There
is an obligation on all of us to meet the needs of a broader audience,
but at the same time one has to bear in mind the commercial realities
of getting in advertising. I came from Reuters which over many
years has shown that having excellence in news and high quality
and being commercially successful are not necessarily mutually
exclusive concepts. I think ITN is finding that in the same way.
It is a matter of trying to make sure you do meet the needs of
all your audience, and I think you can do that.
Mr Maxton: You, Mr Chairman, have labelled
me the technology nerd of the Committee, so I might as well play
the role!
Chairman: It is not all I have labelled
you!
Mr Maxton
136. You certainly give greater emphasis in
the submission you made to us on the changing nature of technology
and therefore news coverage than do ITV. Do you think that is
one of the major reasons why the ITV companies are seeking to
change their news? Is it the changing nature of news coverage
from other sources?
(Mr Wood) As we heard today, the major concern is
trends in the audience figures, but one has to look behind what
is driving those trends. If you are losing part of the audience
and you are losing a younger part of the audience, for example,
it is quite likely that with a bit of research you will find some
of them are getting access to their news in different ways and
therefore one wants to try to win back that audience. So I think
you can have it both ways. There are a lot of people who are very
happy to get their news off the Internet but still want to see
Trevor McDonald at 10 o'clock or at 6.30. They are not incompatible
concepts either.
(Mr Tait) One of the most interesting things that
has happened in the last few years, since we have had a website,
is that when we advertise that website (and I do not mean in a
commercial sense, I mean we draw attention to it as an additional
service) there is a tremendous up-take. As you know, the broadcasters
are allowed to put the website address at the end of their programmes
and on our Channel 5 service currently, which has a significantly
younger audience, we actually integrate the website, we have a
website correspondent, and I do not see terrestrial television
and the new media as necessarily being in competition with this.
I think they can be compatible.
137. Not at the moment. Take that website, the
BBC website shows their news bulletins live and then continuously
thereafter. Do you on your website?
(Mr Tait) We currently show our world news, which
is our international service.
138. But you do not show the standard news that
is going out at 10 o'clock?
(Mr Tait) No. There is a slight difference in what
they are spending on a website and what we are spending on a website.
(Mr Purvis) Despite that, we are still in the top
ten UK websites. We have just started Europe's first personalised
website service which will allow you, Mr Maxton, to have goal
flashes of all the Scottish football results on your desk top;
a service which terrestrial television will never try and match.
That is why it can be a complementary service.
139. You can get it from Ceefax in more detail.
Some of your shareholders are involved in the establishment of
terrestrial digital television.
(Mr Wood) Yes.
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