Examination of Witness (Questions 1440
- 1459)
TUESDAY 10 NOVEMBER 1998
VICE ADMIRAL
ALAN WEST
1440. ***, do you think the Kabbah Government
was restored prematurely?
(Vice Admiral Alan West) I really could not——
1441. On the basis perhaps it would have
been better to await its full resolution through diplomatic means?
(Vice Admiral Alan West) All I would say is that
the rebels are a very unpleasant bunch and do some pretty nasty
things.
1442. Do you think that was the pressure
for an early settlement? Pressure on the part of various people
to press for a military solution, in particular Peter Penfold
who made no secret of the fact he wanted a military resolution?
(Vice Admiral Alan West) I am sort of speculating,
so I am very wary of answering that.
Sir Peter Emery
1443. Admiral, you have been immensely frank
and we are very grateful. You may have indicated this in some
of your answers but I wonder whether I could just pick this up?
When did you first feel yourself that you knew that arms were
really being supplied to Kabbah?
(Vice Admiral Alan West) I did not know for certain
that was happening until the Berwin letter, until I saw that letter,
which I cannot remember the date of.
1444. Which letter is that, I am sorry?
(Vice Admiral Alan West) It was dated 24th April,
I saw it on the 27th April.
1445. That was when you were absolutely
convinced. Did you know about the reference for breaking the regulations
that referred to the Board of Trade—I think it was the 12th,
13th or 10th February? What was your judgment then?
(Vice Admiral Alan West) This was the letter——
1446. No, this was the reference to the
committee examining the breach of the Order in Council.
(Vice Admiral Alan West) Was this the REU, the
enforcement unit?
1447. The enforcement committee, yes. What
is it called?
(Vice Admiral Alan West) The REU, Restricted Enforcement
Unit.
1448. Yes.
(Vice Admiral Alan West) That meets every two
weeks, I think, on a Wednesday. I was not aware that that issue
had been brought up. I have forgotten how many items were brought
up that day but I was not aware that that was an issue which had
been raised and it was not brought to my attention.
1449. You never knew that the issue of the
export of arms by Sandline had been referred to the REU?
(Vice Admiral Alan West) I did not know that until
subsequently to that Berwin letter, when people started looking
in much more detail.
1450. The April letter?
(Vice Admiral Alan West) Yes. I am not surprised
within my organisation I was not. In terms of arms embargoes,
I process about 8,000 export licence applications a year.
1451. I am not making moral judgments——
(Vice Admiral Alan West) No, I am just explaining
to the Committee, because I know sometimes what happens when one
is focusing on an issue. I think there were 8,000 of them over
the last 12 months; issues which have been raised like that about
licences and things like that. I would be very annoyed if they
brought all those up to me, I have to say. So it is not surprising
that they did not actually.
1452. The Foreign Office actually say there
were only three references which were concerned with the export
of arms.
(Vice Admiral Alan West) At that particular meeting?
1453. Over the last 18 months.
(Vice Admiral Alan West) Just to Sierra Leone
or to anywhere?
1454. To anywhere. The references are in
the evidence. When do you think in retrospect that Major Hicks
realised that arms were being exported?
(Vice Admiral Alan West) I think he was aware
of small arms being exported on the day that he sent that first
report, which effectively was either when he arrived in Conakry
or the first day he got back into Sierra Leone, I cannot remember.
As soon as he was aware he sent a report in.
1455. And that report surely would have
been transmitted to the FCO, would it not?
(Vice Admiral Alan West) No, it was that first
report that actually did not go to the FCO.
1456. At all?
(Vice Admiral Alan West) No, it did not go to
them because he had not cleared it with Mr Penfold. I am convinced
that Mr Penfold and he were aware of exactly the same things ***
Although he had not had a chance to clear the signal with them,
it is almost inconceivable to me that he would have done that.
1457. Therefore, it would also be inconceivable,
*** if Mr Penfold was reporting to the Foreign Office.
(Vice Admiral Alan West) I think the MLO would
have assumed that that was the case.
1458. And that is the meeting on 15 February,
is it?
(Vice Admiral Alan West) I think that was the
date.
Dr Godman
1459. Can I come back to this question concerning
non-lethal equipment and military equipment. You said an example
of non-lethal equipment could be a tin of beans. What about night
vision equipment? Colonel Spicer, when I questioned him last week
(Q996), said that night vision equipment could in fact be fitted
to any assault rifle or form of small arms to aim and fire accurately
at night and it could also be used to fly helicopters. He also
said that this kind of equipment is used by photographers and
naturalists and others. Presumably, given its capability to direct
small arms fire or heavier arms, it can hardly be called non-lethal
equipment. Would it come under the rubric of military equipment?
(Vice Admiral Alan West) I am not an expert in
this so I am very wary. As soon as you get into these sort of
things you have got lawyers involved with exact definitions. I
would not see night vision goggles—and they are normally
used by helicopter pilots—as being a lethal bit of equipment,
but it depends on its application and to say they are used by
naturalists, maybe they are, but I think if one is weighing up
all of the evidence you need to look at the precise circumstances.
But I must be very wary here because I am not an expert in this
area. Once you get into this—and it partly relates to the
work of the REU and arms embargoes and the giving of licences
for export—it is a minefield where the lawyers have a field
day and trying to pin down what exactly cannot and can be included
in a certain category is extremely difficult because people are
playing their own games there. As an intelligence analyst, if
I was sitting back and looking at it and I saw night vision goggles
and all sorts of other bits and pieces, I would very much see
that as a package of military equipment which would probably ring
certain alarm bells with me. It does not necessarily mean they
are lethal. What are they actually being used for? I would be
interested to know that.
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