Examination of witnesses (Questions 100
- 119)
TUESDAY 5 MAY 1998
RT HON
CLARE SHORT,
MP, MR
RICHARD TEUTEN
and MR JOHN
KERBY
Dr Tonge
100. I am conscious a lot of the answers
to the questions we have, Chairman, are in the report that they
have given to us so can I highlight a few things. Firstly, the
volcanic ash: you know I have asked about this time and time again,
it torments me, the long term effect of the volcanic ash. You
say in the report given to us this morning that somebody is doing
research to assess the effect of volcanic ash, is that being done
at the Brompton or London Chest, where is it being done, in this
country or Montserrat?
(Clare Short) If I could just say, Chair, I am
also haunted by it. I read the first report that said the ash
potentially may cause silicosis in September and I became absolutely
obsessed with getting that information out on the island so that
everybody knew the risk. We had a struggle to do that but there
has been a document which has been circulated to everybody. I
think and hope the risk is understood and monitoring is going
on. Can you say who is doing it?
(Mr Teuten) The Institute of Occupational Medicine
in Scotland is leading the primary research.
101. Will they be doing interim reports
into how they are progressing?
(Mr Teuten) Some of their preliminary work was
included in the papers made available at the turn of the year
which contributed to the risk analysis.
(Clare Short) But the answer is yes. Also we have
asked that medical practitioners in Britain and in the neighbouring
islands keep an eye out for reporting of lung problems because
it can show in people who have left the island already.
102. I realise at the moment the community
of the island is relatively safe from ash as well as other dangers.
How many people are living in the unsafe areas in the middle?
Are there still people there?
(Mr Teuten) Dozens. It fluctuates.
103. And they are aware of the risks to
their health from the ash?
(Mr Teuten) Yes, they are.
Chairman: Mr Grant
has a constituency case, or I think it is a constituency case.
Do you want to ask the Secretary of State about that?
Mr Grant
104. It is the case of someone who stepped
into the ash and her feet and legs were swollen to thrice their
normal size. She has now come to Britain and her consultant wrote
to me because there was difficulty in getting adequate housing
for her from the local authority. We sent the case through to
Baroness Symons in the Foreign Office and have not heard anything
more about it as yet. I am wondering if there are any other people
in this position and whether the kind of screening which has gone
on in Montserrat is adequate and whether there is any screening
going on in this country.
(Clare Short) Firstly, on her needs here, you
are right to have approached the Foreign Office who are responsible
for co-ordinating that activity. I must say I personally have
not heard of anyone with swellings until you said this. I think
we would be grateful for details and we will make sure that we
pass them on to the people who are doing the medical monitoring.
How systematic the monitoring of cases of ill-health in Britain
is, I am not sure. I know that we wanted to draw the attention
of medical practitioners to look out for particularly lung problems.
Is it being done systematically?
(Mr Teuten) The Department of Health is co-ordinating
this issue and is chairing a meeting later this month to agree
the strategy both on island and in the UK for devising a database
to enable us for future years to monitor whether there is any
long-term impact as a result of ash inhalation. The point raised
by Mr Grant is damage caused by pyroclastic flows, burns, and
clearly there are a few individuals who have suffered in this
manner and there are procedures on island for transporting severe
burns cases to neighbouring islands for treatment.
Mr Grant: But she
has come here to the Hospital for Tropical Diseases.
Chairman
105. Perhaps Mr Grant can give you the details.
(Clare Short) Yes, and we will look at whatever
we can do about it.
106. I am anxious to get on. We asked the
Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs about the report that he
commissioned on the lessons to be learned from the Montserrat
experience and we asked him when will it be completed and when
will the review be completed on the disaster preparedness of the
Caribbean Dependent Territories, and he said that that was a matter
for your Department.
(Clare Short) I am not aware of a report on the
lessons of Montserrat.
(Mr Teuten) He was referring to the DfID evaluation
report on which we have drafted terms of reference which we will
be sharing with the Government of Montserrat and other government
departments.
(Clare Short) And indeed we will share with the
Committee[15].
(Mr Teuten) Yes, indeed, before commissioning
independent consultants to undertake that activity later in the
summer.
(Clare Short) We do a lot of evaluation of our
work. You will understand that we need to.
107. Yes, and we have difficulty in understanding
how you do it.
(Clare Short) But it is not an unusual step and
we do evaluate our work regularly all over the place.
108. Will it be jointly with the Foreign
Office?
(Clare Short) I think so.
(Mr Teuten) Yes, it would be managed by our Evaluation
Department, but clearly the Foreign Office will be involved in
the process and everybody else along with other government departments
and the Government of Montserrat.
109. Perhaps when you have completed it,
you will let us see it.
(Clare Short) Of course.
Chairman: Now,
let us return to the Sustainable Development Plan.
Dr Tonge
110. We want to know please how long it
is going to be before the Sustainable Development Plan will be
published and if you think there is a realistic chance of a sustainable
and viable economy in the north of the island and, if so, whether
the people are being encouraged back to engage in economic activity
there.
(Clare Short) There is a draft Sustainable Development
Plan in being; indeed I finished reading it over the weekend.
We and the Government of Montserrat are just trying to finalise
our agreement on it. In fact, Richard is going to Montserrat in
a couple of weeks hopefully to do that and there is broad agreement,
so I am optimistic that that will be done. Then I want the draft
to be published for a consultation, together with a budget of
the kind of resources that are being spent and are going to be
available because of course you cannot talk about a plan for sustainable
development without talking about money and how much and what
we can afford and what the options are, and that, we hope, assuming
there is agreement with the Government of Montserrat, will go
out at the end of this month.
(Mr Teuten) Or early next month, yes.
(Clare Short) And obviously it will come to you
as well.
Chairman
111. Will it go out as an agreed plan?
(Clare Short) No, as a draft for discussion with
people on the island, your Committee and anyone else.
112. I wanted to ask whether we could see
it. I know that there is a draft plan in existence because the
Government of Montserrat told me that there was one and they said
that they were going to send it to me, but they have not sent
it to me.
(Clare Short) There is a draft in existence and
the sum difference, and it is fairly minor, between the Government
of Montserrat and my Department, we are just trying to finalise.
If we cannot reach agreement, I will let you have details, but
I am very optimistic that we will reach final agreement and we
will have a published draft for consultation alongside a budget
so that people on the island can look at all the options, where
the future lies, what the costs are likely to be, where the resources
are going to come from, so I am hopeful that that is all on track
and about to come out and you and, more importantly, with respect,
the people on the island will have copies of it. As to the second
part of your question, clearly the most developed and fertile
parts of the island are still not able to be occupied. The time
will come when they will be able to be.
Dr Tonge
113. But it is going to take quite a long
time.
(Clare Short) I know, it is going to take time
and we do not know how long and in the meantime it is about preserving
the community and basically decent life in the north of the island,
but that will be limited by the very nature of the geography and
the landscape. What I am certain of is that all the kind of basic
needs for decent life, decent housing, decent health care, decent
education and decent care of the elderly will be provided. We
will do our best to assist the development of businesses and small
enterprises. We are very keen to move away from the kind of hand-out
dependency to giving people the chance to build and repair their
own houses, create their own little businesses, and what can be
agricultural development is possible on much more difficult land,
so I am absolutely sure that there will be viable life and a viable
community.
114. But it is going to be heavily dependent
on our financing that, is it not?
(Clare Short) I am afraid so, yes.
115. So "sustainable" does not
mean self-sufficient.
(Clare Short) I think that is right. Really until
the volcano has finished this round of activity and the island
is able to recover, then in time I am sure the island can rebuild,
but it will take time.
116. I have always been, as you probably
know, very worried about engaging in this Sustainable Development
Plan and plans for the north of the island until the volcano has
been dormant for a considerable amount of time. It seems that
we still do not know and we cannot be completely sure of what
the volcano is going to do.
(Clare Short) I understand that, but, on the other
hand, I am very keen that we do not keep making decisions in a
very short-term, emergency way. We have got, whatever it is, 2,800
or so people——
(Mr Teuten) About 3,000.
(Clare Short) It is a little under I think, of
people remaining on the island and increasing an elderly population
because, very understandably, older people do not want at that
stage of their life to move and make a new life, and we owe it
to them that they can look ahead and know what facilities will
be there and how their life will be within the limits of the volcano
not having burnt itself out and life having to be confined to
the north of the island. Let us have no illusions, there are great
limits, but I think we owe it to the people to get the longest-term
kind of decision-making that is possible so that people know where
they are.
Ms Follett
117. I think it is very admirable what your
Department is trying to do in the business and enterprise sector,
but what about insurance? There are a great many risks involved
in business, just as in ordinary life, but when you go on to an
island with an active volcano, the risks go off the scale. You
talk about the enterprise development, of small enterprise units
and people going into them, but is there any arrangement for insurance?
(Clare Short) There is a section in the report
on insurance, is there not? I think there were three insurance
companies operating on the island and two have basically ceased
to offer insurance and one offers limited insurance, is that right?
It is a problem, as you say, of the basic risks of the situation
and it is yet another burden and difficulty that people on Montserrat
have to carry. Could you add to that?
(Mr Teuten) This is a matter on which the Foreign
Office has been leading. There has not been any aid monies involved,
nor would it be appropriate to subsidise what is essentially a
private commercial activity. Our aim has been to try and inform
the insurance companies by providing them with sufficient information
on the volcanic risks and on the British Government's intentions
by way of supporting the longer term development of the island
and to encourage them to return by that means rather than through
financial inducements.
118. I think that is admirable, I think
it outlines the problem.
(Clare Short) The loss to the three insurance
companies to date is more than £25 million. Sun Alliance
of the East Caribbean is the only company still providing property
insurance and they are not invoking cancellation clauses but even
they are running down their remaining business by means of not
inviting renewals. We are not the lead department.
119. No, I know that. I am not suggesting
that you do anything on it, I am just saying that given that background
it seems that efforts to provide sustainable development or enterprise,
admirable though they are, are going to be very difficult because
this is going to come from the private sector. I have to underline
what Dr Tonge is saying that in such a risky situation it is going
to be very difficult indeed.
(Mr Teuten) There are ongoing discussions with
insurance companies. Some insurance companies have suggested restoration
cover but naturally at this stage the premia being mentioned are
quite high. Over time we hope those figures will come down and
they will become more affordable.
(Clare Short) It is absolutely right, the situation
on Montserrat is very difficult. Rebuilding from scratch in the
north is enormously difficult. People are being very resilient
and strong but the difficulties are enormous. For all of us it
is a very difficult situation but within those constraints we
are determined to provide all the basics that people need and
give people the prospect of planning their life in a rather more
long-term perspective.
Chairman: I would
like to invite Ann Clwyd to continue to lead our questioning.
15 See Evidence p. 34 and pp. 36-42. Back
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