Examination of Witnesses (Questions 60
- 69)
WEDNESDAY 24 JUNE 1998
Rt Hon Clare Short, Mrs Barbara Kelly, and Mr Graham
Stegmann.
60. A lot of people of African descent are concerned
at some of the remarks that were made in relation to people not
giving money to people who are starving, etcetera. Could you take
this opportunity of explaining precisely what you meant by those
remarks?
(Clare Short) I think I have already
done that, but I have to say that a lot of people of African descent
have been in touch with me and taken the contrary view. That shows
the plurality of opinion in this world.
Dr Tonge
61. Secretary of State, you have told us that there
are very good communications with the NGOs and DFID. I still do
not really understand why there was not an earlier warning of
this. I absolutely agree with what you have said about not curing
situations but trying to prevent them in the first place. I just
feel that at the end of last year we could have done something
more perhaps if we had listened to the noises coming out of Sudan.
That was one point.
(Clare Short) Could I answer that point
by referring to what Barbara said before, ie, there is always
this wisdom of hindsight. She has gone back through the records
of the Department and it is not true that it was being said in
October.
62. That is fine. That is the information a lot of
us are getting, as you may be aware, that there was information
in October and I just wanted to clarify that the Department was
not aware that there was a crisis looming.
(Clare Short) The first information
was the draft of the UN appeal.
63. This war has gone on for 30 years, as you said.
What pressure are you putting on the FCO to do something about
the supply of arms to the people who are fighting in Sudan? Where
are the arms coming from, despite all the noises the international
community is making and what is the FCO and our government doing
to prevent them getting there?
(Clare Short) There has been an arms
embargo EU-wide since 1994.
64. I appreciate that.
(Clare Short) In terms of Britain's
responsibility and EU responsibility there is an arms embargo.
Where are the arms coming from? Again I do not know with any authority.
Clearly the government of Sudan has its own suppliers. Sadly Africa
is littered with small arms. This is a very very serious problem.
There has just been a conference in Southern Africa about arms
left over from the Mozambique conflict feeding crime in South
Africa and Malawi. There was a West African initiative to reduce
the flow of small arms to West Africa. A lot of ammunition is
manufactured in Africa. I do not know if you have got anything
to add on the arms.
(Mrs Kelly) There are lots of people
who have got lots of views on where they come from but I do not
think we have anything concrete.
Dr Tonge: Who could give us any information
about that or enlighten us?
Chairman
65. Where are the funds coming from to fund the SPLA
and where are they coming from to support the government of Khartoum?
(Clare Short) I would love to see the
journalism that asks these questions of which governments are
supporting who, in what way and is that helping or feeding the
fighting. Those are very important questions. I have limited access
to information as a member of the Government and I do not think
I give you the answer that I think is the truth, but some journalism
asking those questions and calling for less of that activity and
more activity to build peace is the way to help the people of
Sudan.
Chairman: I do not think I can press you further
on that. Ann Clwyd?
Ann Clwyd
66. Can I put two quotes to you. One is a letter
published in the Guardian Weekly on 21 June from the Disasters
Emergency Committee: "We are outraged by Clare Short's remarks.
Sufficient money has not been available from governments to finance
the relief operation that is required in Southern Sudan."
Secondly, from a report in The Independent of 7 June from
Oxfam's International Director, Stewart Wallace, who said that
you were "dangerously out of touch" with the reality
of Sudan and the work of the aid agencies.
(Clare Short) Right. I think, with respect,
Ann, you seem to want to stoke an old row which has now been explained
and dealt with—-
Mr Grant
67. Not to us it has not.
(Clare Short) It has, Bernie. The question
is whether you have listened. You might not agree with me and
I understand and respect that, but it has been fully explained
and it is absolutely clear and that is a matter for the record
of the discussions with the NGOs. There have been letters of the
other kind too that you do not quote. There it is. Is it most
helpful for people like you to keep going over and over this ground
or is it most helpful for us to all combine as the NGOs are doing
to get more resources in by flights, get the corridors of tranquillity
and get some progress on the peace process. I invite everyone
of goodwill to combine.
68. Clare, can I say to you we would not be asking
these questions unless we felt the answers had not been given.
That is why I asked you those questions.
(Clare Short) I think the answers have
been given. People who disagree often keep asking the same questions.
It might be better to say: "I have heard your answers but
I do not agree with your judgement." I respect that. That
is the way humanity goes on but I think the questions have been
fully answered.
Chairman
69. I think we have come to the end of our questions.
I have got just one last one. Your application is in for the Comprehensive
Spending Review. How much access are you going to get?
(Clare Short) I remain hopeful, Chair,
but anything you can do to help will be much appreciated!
Chairman: Thank you very much indeed for spending
well over an hour and a half, longer than we expected. We are
very grateful to you.
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