Select Committee on Northern Ireland Affairs Third Report


PROCEEDINGS OF THE COMMITTEE RELATING TO THE REPORT

WEDNESDAY 1 JULY 1998

Members present:

Mr Peter Brooke, in the Chair


Mr Roy BeggsMr Andrew Hunter
Mr Desmond BrowneMr Ken Livingstone
Mr Jeffrey Donaldson Mr Martin Salter
Mr John Grogan


The Committee deliberated.

Mr Roy Beggs, Mr Jeffrey Donaldson and Mr Andrew Hunter declared a non-pecuniary interest as members of the Orange Order in relation to the inquiry into the Composition, Recruitment and Training of the RUC.

The Committee further deliberated.

  [Adjourned till Wednesday 8 July at a quarter to Four o'clock.

  WEDNESDAY 8 JULY 1998

Members present:

Mr Peter Brooke, in the Chair


Mr Roy BeggsMr John Grogan
Mr Desmond BrowneMr Stephen Hesford
Mr Jeffrey Donaldson



Mr Andrew HunterMr Peter Robinson
Mr Ken Livingstone Mr Martin Salter
Mr Tony McWalter



The Committee deliberated.

Draft Report (Composition, Recruitment and Training of the RUC), proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.

Ordered, That the Report be read a second time, paragraph by paragraph.

Paragraphs 1 to 43 read and agreed to.

Paragraph 44 read, as follows:

"Flying the flag on 12 July is regarded by many as a provocation and links the RUC with one part of the community in Northern Ireland. As Northern Ireland is an integral part of the United Kingdom, the Union Flag is the appropriate flag to be flown over police stations, but the special celebrations of 12 July are a case apart. The flying of the Union Flag on 12 July outside police stations is regarded as sectarian by many and should cease."

Amendment proposed in line 4, to leave out the words "but the special celebrations of 12 July are a case apart. The flying of the Union Flag on 12 July outside police stations is

regarded as sectarian by many and should cease." — (Mr Andrew Hunter).

Question put, That the Amendment be made.

The Committee divided.



Ayes, 4Noes, 6
Mr Roy BeggsMr Desmond Browne
Mr Jeffrey Donaldson Mr John Grogan
Mr Andrew HunterMr Stephen Hesford
Mr Peter RobinsonMr Ken Livingstone
Mr Tony McWalter
Mr Martin Salter

Question put, that the paragraph stand part of the Report.

The Committee divided.


Ayes, 6Noes, 4
Mr Desmond BrowneMr Roy Beggs
Mr John GroganMr Jeffrey Donaldson
Mr Stephen Hesford Mr Andrew Hunter
Mr Ken Livingstone Mr Peter Robinson
Mr Tony McWalter
Mr Martin Salter


Paragraphs 45 to 50 read and agreed to.

Paragraph 51 read, as follows:

"There is a difficult balance to be struck between the right to belong to a legal association which represents cultural and political values that citizens (including police officers) are entitled to cherish and the need to be seen to be rigorously impartial. The rights of police officers are already limited: they may not be members of a trade union. Police officers in England and Wales will soon be invited to declare whether they are Freemasons under a voluntary scheme to be introduced by the Home Office. If the voluntary scheme does not work, the Government will consider imposing registration compulsorily. Membership of organisations such as the loyal orders, the Ancient Order of Hibernians or other exclusive groups who generally prohibit membership on religious grounds is incompatible with membership of a public service organisation, especially the RUC. New recruits to the RUC should not be permitted to be members of such organisations. Officers who already belong to them should register their membership privately with the management of the RUC so that complaints about any bias can be seen to be fairly assessed."

Amendment proposed in line 7, to leave out from the words "Membership of organisations" to the end of the paragraph and to add the words "Officers (including new recruits) who belong to organisations such as the loyal orders, the Ancient Order of Hibernians, or other exclusive groups who generally prohibit membership on religious grounds, should register their membership privately with the management of the RUC so that complaints about any bias can be seen to be fairly assessed." — (Mr Andrew Hunter).

Question put, That the Amendment be made.

The Committee divided.


Ayes, 4Noes, 6
Mr Roy BeggsMr Desmond Browne
Mr Jeffrey Donaldson Mr John Grogan
Mr Andrew HunterMr Stephen Hesford
Mr Peter RobinsonMr Ken Livingstone
Mr Tony McWalter
Mr Martin Salter


Question put, That the paragraph stand part of the Report.

The Committee divided.
Ayes, 6Noes, 4
Mr Desmond BrowneMr Roy Beggs
Mr John GroganMr Jeffrey Donaldson
Mr Stephen Hesford Mr Andrew Hunter
Mr Ken Livingstone Mr Peter Robinson
Mr Tony McWalter
Mr Martin Salter

Paragraphs 52 to 114 read and agreed to.

Annex agreed to.

Resolved, That the Report be the Third Report of the Committee to the House.

Ordered, That the Chairman do make the Report to the House.

Ordered, That the provisions of Standing Order No. 134 (Select Committees (reports)) be applied to the Report.

Several papers were ordered to be appended to the Minutes of Evidence.

Ordered, That the Appendices to the Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee be reported to the House. — (The Chairman).

[Adjourned till Wednesday 15 July at a quarter to Four o'clock.


 
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Prepared 27 July 1998