Examination of Witnesses (Questions 160
- 168)
MONDAY 11 FEBRUARY 1998
SIR JOHN
KERR, KCMG and MR
MICHAEL ARTHUR,
CMG
160. If he was someone whose work and responsibility
might already have been described as inadequate, this was hardly
going to make it any more adequate, was it? In fact, it was likely
to make it less adequate.
(Sir John Kerr) I worry about this. I think demotivation
is a possibility. I agree. I am assured that no, he appeared in
other parts of his work to be taking it seriously and nobody was
aware at the time that he was doing anything other than a thoroughly
good job. It is only in retrospect that we can see that he was
falling down on a crucial, central part of the job, but I have
talked to the people in Amman about what he was like to work with
and I am assured that there was no sign of the demotivated man
that I worry about and you worry about, Mr Campbell. I think,
nevertheless, although it may not have shown, it may have been
there.
161. But there are many examples I would
suggest you look at where people do seek early retirement or are
being compulsorily retired or go for voluntary redundancy where
the last period of their work is one where they achieve actually
very little and we are talking about someone who perhaps was achieving
very little in the first place. However, putting that aside, I
have one quick point really. You talk about the lack of sanctions
that you could have actually used against this particular officer.
You say that there are no sanctions and that there is a certain
soul- searching about whether or not people could be fined for
incompetence, but the reality is that there were sanctions available
and that is that at the very same time that you knew of his responsibilities,
you were negotiating a very handsome package indeed, not least
six months' pay and six months' resettlement, so there is £25,000,
if I have worked it out correctly.
(Sir John Kerr) I think the package was not negotiated
with him, but it was what he was entitled to if he retired on
CER, compulsory early retirement, terms.
162. And you could not have clawed any of
that back? None of that was at your discretion not to pay him?
(Sir John Kerr) We could have refused or we could
have torn up the agreement, I suppose, and refused him compulsory
early retirement and we could have dismissed him instead. That
would have been what we would have done if we had discovered that
he had peculated, that he had been a fraudster. He would then
have been in the hands of the police and, if guilty, that is what
would have happened to him. That is why he was suspended in July
while our flying squad was out there looking to see if he had.
When it was established that he had not, that his fault was incompetent
supervision, not being an accomplice to or a beneficiary from
a fraud, then the decision was taken that he should be reprimanded,
but that the previously agreed CER terms should still apply to
his retirement.
163. Moving on, I understand that there
were many agencies, and we have talked about the four checks that
were in place, and we are talking about the staff that are under
your responsibility and jurisdiction. How many officers in post
at the time, either in Amman or in the UK, would have had responsibility
for what was actually happening? Can you give me a number there?
(Sir John Kerr) The men behind me are the representatives
of the flying squad. The chain is from me to the Ambassador and
then down inside the Embassy.
164. And in the Embassy, how many layers
are we talking about, and how many people are we talking about?
(Sir John Kerr) Ambassador, Deputy Head of Mission,
then our Senior Management Officer and then the accountant, and
occasionally the Assistant Management Officer standing in.
165. So that is three or possibly four within
the Embassy and what about the people in the UK?
(Sir John Kerr) Me.
166. How many of those people could be judged
to have been culpable?
(Sir John Kerr) One is subject to the court. One,
in my view, is clearly culpable. I also think that charge of failing
to live up to the standards of the Service, and what we have a
right to expect, stands against everybody else in that chain in
the Embassy in Amman.
167. How many were disciplined?
(Sir John Kerr) Two were disciplined, one received
a reprimand, one received an admonition, two more, not through
the disciplinary process but from a very high level, received
letters telling them they had done badly and the Ambassador was
made aware.
168. One final question. The Chairman wants
to be in and far be it from me to hold him back. I understand
about the rolling programme of checks you have going on through
your embassies. A slightly different point: how many actual examples
of alleged irregularity are you currently investigating?
(Sir John Kerr) I think the answer is three.
Chairman: Thank you very much. Sir
John, we have had an interesting discussion with you on a very
narrow and rather shameful subject. I think I would join in Mr
Wardle's comment in recognising your contrition on behalf of the
department in terms of the seriousness of it, but I have to say
that there is one detailed point which I think a number of Members
of the Committee would like me to obtain from you. In all my days
in dealing with even the diplomatic jargon of the European Union,
I never came across an oxymoron quite like applying for compulsory
retirement. I would be grateful if, in the note that we get on
the comparative costs of the compulsory versus voluntary retirement,
we get an explanation of precisely how this decision sequence
took place[11],
at what point somebody asked him, at what point it was offered,
so that we can be very clear as to what the motivation, as it
were, of the man was. Beyond that, I have an observation really
to make to you. It is not something which will massively impact
on your responses to us. The C&AG made a comment about the
importance of treating these so-called secondary issues with a
great priority, with great commitment, the sort of commitment
we expect the Foreign Office to bring to its local primary issues.
Obviously we have heard a lot about the standard treatment for
discipline you are thinking about following, but you might think
as well about the other issues that you take as normal-the rotation
pattern which you have, which arises because of the requirements
of posting. How difficult would it be perhaps if Mr Arthur-and
I agree with you, clever as he is, he will probably be sitting
in your seat suffering in ten years' time. Mr Arthur's job was
held by a permanent director of resources drawn from the private
sector doing the sorts of things we have heard about today. We
also know, I know and others know, from experience in the Foreign
Office you have fast-track and mainstream. Is that the phrase
you use? How many fast-track civil servants do Management Officers'
jobs? there are a number of issues that you might consider. It
is for you to consider, not for this Committee to tell you about
this issue. We are here to worry about the results at the end
of doing that. I leave those thoughts with you in finally thanking
you for your evidence.
11 Note: See Evidence, Appendix 1, page 21 (PAC 208). Back
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