Examination of witnesses (Questions 60
- 67)
TUESDAY 21 JULY 1998
RT HON
FRANK FIELD,
MP and MS
HILARY REYNOLDS
60. I agree you do not know about that at
the moment, but we assume that pretty soon you will——
(Mr Field) We will know more.
61. You will know more. I am raising a slightly
different point as to whether it would be unreasonable, and some
might say it would be unreasonable, that when that person or someone
within their family perhaps applies in the future to re-enter
Britain and applies for a visa, that this was placed on their
record as possibly a reason why they should not be granted a visa?
(Mr Field) We will look at that idea.
(Ms Reynolds) We do already have two immigration
officers working with us and we are starting to look at linkages
between this cross-departmentally.
(Mr Field) That is part of the Ministerial Working
Group.
Chairman
62. Immigration officers do not help you
with the EC route.
(Ms Reynolds) They come with the expertise.
Mr Wicks: It gives
a new meaning to the single currency.
Chairman
63. Surely the legal jurisdiction point,
which I well understand, might be taken up with sister European
nations because there must be a reciprocal interest here? It cannot
be that hard to be able to pursue fraud within sister European
countries because there is after all a single market and all the
rest of it? Surely legislation, if it is distinct from the jurisdiction
of the United Kingdom, could be expanded at least to that extent
to look at single European countries?
(Ms Reynolds) Indeed, in very specific cases like
"Operation Tulip" which happened recently, which was
a Dutch one with us, we did work very closely with the Dutch Police
in bringing a ring together that was operating across two countries.
We can do it in individual cases. What we are talking about is
a difference between a generalised sampling and checking regime
as opposed to specific case investigation.
(Mr Field) Malcolm's general point is taken. We
are much stricter in letting animals come in and out of this country
than we are benefit fraudsters. That is an issue we are looking
at.
Ms Stuart
64. One thing which always struck me, and
I wonder whether the department is thinking about this, having
not been brought up in this country, is the ease with which in
the United Kingdom we change our names and use names. There is
no rule as to what name children should take whereas in some countries
there is quite a strict rule as to which surname children take
and the legal processes of changing them and one of registration.
Are we looking along the lines at formalising some of these procedures
in some way?
(Mr Field) No, but we will certainly check your
number!
Chairman
65. She is a very valued Member of our Committee.
(Mr Field) That is a separate issue.
66. Frank, you said right at the very beginning
that some of these issues are very sensitive for the reasons you
explained. As you know better than me, we have got the ability
to go into private session. If you thought there were circumstances
where we could have a discussion about anything that you thought
would be of mutual interest maybe you would consider that in future.
(Mr Field) I welcome that. How we are developing
our strategy and where the lines are being drawn, I would find
it valuable to be able to talk to you. I would not find it valuable
for it to be broadcast for other people to know how that strategy
is developing.
67. I think it is important that we send
strong signals, and the Government has already started that, and
we well enough recognise it, that people who are perpetrating
these frauds in Britain have a hard time in the future. I am sure
the Committee would want to encourage ministers in that direction.
This afternoon's hearing has been very helpful in that process.
Perhaps this is a dialogue that might continue in the future.
We will certainly not be backward in coming forward with some
of our ideas.
(Mr Field) We have already got some ideas off
you, Chairman, during this session. I would welcome a private
hearing. At that private hearing if you could assure us on the
identity of one of your Members, Mr Malcolm Wicks, I would be
very grateful!
Chairman: I will cause
that work to be carried out. Thank you very much that has been
very helpful.
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