| Previous Section | Index | Home Page |
Rev. Martin Smyth (Belfast, South): It is a privilege to follow the hon. Member for Milton Keynes, North-East (Mr. White), since we went to the same grammar school--at different times of course. He will have been a constituent of mine at one time. When he said that the Queen's Speech would be seen as the point time when we turned a corner, I remembered that old Ulster expression. When a person asks how far it is to such and such a place, the reply is, "It's just round the corner." I have a suspicion that his corner may just be as far ahead as that guidance to wanderers in Northern Ireland.
I welcome the speeches made by the mover and seconder of the motion today, especially that of the hon. Member for Bassetlaw (Mr. Ashton), to which I shall return in a moment. I join those who have put on record their tribute to Gordon McMaster and his contribution to the House. He is missed. I worked with him in the disability lobby and I knew his concern about the UDR Four and his regular inquiries as to what was going on. He was a man who had an open heart and a concern for people. I join those who have paid tribute to his memory today.
The hon. Member for Bassetlaw referred to the reform of the House of Lords. I have no difficulty with reform, but I believe that it is wrong to reform without having thought through the future. I speak in the context of the reference made by the hon. Gentleman to Lord Fitt's speech 30 years ago in this House, when pressure was put on the then Northern Ireland Parliament, which was prorogued at that time. Successive Governments have spent years trying to put something in its place.
I believe that there is a need for a revising Chamber. How it is formed may be open to debate, but I am convinced that there is a need for one. The evidence for that is the last Bill relating to Northern Ireland, which went through the House in a shameful way in four hours, when 420 amendments to it had been tabled. That shows that there is a place for a revising Chamber to give this Chamber time to reflect on its legislation before it finalises it.
I must try to put the record straight. The hon. Member for Bassetlaw said that Lord Fitt, then Gerry Fitt, the Member of Parliament for West Belfast, talked about the numbers of people who did not have a vote and said that one person had something like 24 votes. The impression would have been given to people here and to people outside the House, and internationally, that many people in Northern Ireland did not have a vote for either the old Stormont Parliament or the Westminster Parliament.
The reality is that those votes referred to the local ratepayers franchise, which was not removed in Northern Ireland after 1945.
Significantly, when the Conservative Government tried to bring in the community charge, commonly called the poll tax, they did not have the nerve to extend it to Northern Ireland, because it would have been an admission that there was a reality in what was called the ratepayers franchise. Many people have misunderstood that. It is important to remember that it had nothing to do with Unionism or nationalism; nothing to do with Roman Catholicism or Protestantism. Presbyterian ministers, Church of Ireland rectors and Roman Catholic priests did not have a vote in local council elections because they were dwelling in Church-owned property that did not have rates paid for it. The issue cut across society.
I welcome the Government's commitment to bringing back the regulations and laws on the age of consent relating to those who may abuse their position of trust. If there is any change in the age of consent, I suggest that the best compromise may be that of Northern Ireland, making the age 17 rather than 16. In this modern age, with so many children murdered or abused, we should long since have established a commissioner for children. The various bodies that are concerned about the welfare of children have been urging that for a long time. Before the end of this Session, I hope that the Government will introduce legislation on a commissioner for children.
The Queen's Speech refers to international terrorism. I am reminded of what sometimes happens when children misbehave in public on the Shankill road. Their mother says to them, "When I get you home, I'll murder you." The youngster looks at her and laughs, because they already know that it means, "When I get you home, I'll do nothing." It is a meaningless threat. We have made such threats that we have not followed through, allowing some of the greatest dictators in the world to laugh at us as they have been not just threatening the United States' oil supplies or the stability of the middle east, but persecuting their citizens, be they the Shi'ite Muslims in the marsh or the Kurds in the north. The same has happened elsewhere. It is time that Governments who claim to be democratic started to work together to deal with such dictators.
As a Northern Ireland Member, I have a wry smile about that. The hon. Member for Milton Keynes, North-East said that he had his own sense of humour. We all have, and I sometimes get into trouble with mine. Is there not something wrong with a Government who justified the illegal help to restore the ousted Government of Sierra Leone on the grounds that they were getting rid of rebels and putting into power a democratically elected Government, while in Northern Ireland they have opened the way for unreformed terrorists to be placed in executive positions in a democratic structure? As I understand it, there is no legislation to guard against that.
I say that advisedly. There was a fringe meeting at the Labour party conference addressed by a Unionist councillor with Gerry Adams. Two Ministers and a former Cabinet Minister were on the platform. According to a newspaper report, the best joke was told by the Unionist councillor, who said, "How can you tell the difference between Sinn Fein-IRA and the Spice Girls? We know that Geri has left the Spice Girls." Without one weapon decommissioned, we are still pressing ahead to give credibility to those who are not the majority of people in
Northern Ireland, but a minority who, through terror, have sought to dictate terms in Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland and elsewhere.
I ask the House not to join those who have been happy to demonise the Royal Ulster Constabulary. Significantly, some of the charges that were laid against the old Ulster Unionist Government have been laid against successive British Governments, Labour or Conservative. The reality is not one of civil rights, but of national identity. The RUC has served all the people of Northern Ireland. I know fine men and women from the Roman Catholic community who have proudly served and have borne the penalty, being murdered by republicans.
The other side of the equation also has to be borne in mind. Those of a loyalist terrorist persuasion have not earned the right to represent the people of Northern Ireland. My hon. Friend the Member for Fermanagh and South Tyrone (Mr. Maginnis) was castigated because newspapers misreported part of his speech in the House and let the Loyalist Volunteer Force off the hook. I want to explain what he was getting at when he talked about what terrorists--loyalist terrorists--have stooped to. I am reminded of a prison chaplain who, the day after his young son was brutally kicked and maimed for life, was told by a loyalist prisoner, "We hope you got the message." It is a scandal and a shame in a democratic community when we give credibility to what I call the incredible.
I welcome the Gracious Speech and the advances that it contains. I shall refer quickly to three issues. First, I trust that the Government will heed the advice of the person involved in tertiary education who told me that, if money is to be poured into education, it should be poured into the primary sector as we are losing out at that level and failing to equip children to go on to further study.
The second issue involves welfare to work and other aspects of the Government's modernising plans. There is something wrong with a job skills programme that seems to revert to an earlier programme which ruled that, if people did not have a job by the end of level 2, they could not proceed to level 3. That is possibly one reason why so many people are poorly equipped. For example, many in the construction and building industry chose self-employment as a tax evasion dodge through national insurance. However, many of those self-employed cannot afford to undertake necessary training at a time when the building and construction industry is short of some 6,000 people. I trust that the Government will seek to improve training standards.
Mr. Harry Barnes (North-East Derbyshire):
It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Belfast, South (Rev. Martin Smyth), who does important work in respect of health, social security and disability. I shall touch on one or two of the points that he raised in connection with Northern Ireland--the area that he represents.
| Next Section
| Index | Home Page |